Well as you state, we are inconsistant with that fight, Ifrit is a Decent fight in wich we can consistantly get the same speed of kill. but reguardless, i dont see a issue with holding hate, or the issue with useing Ifrit as a test. Even if it took my group 30 mins to kill what is it to you? as long as the results support what i just posted nothing you just stated has an effect on what i stated. IF anything it tells me that fight needs a stronger tank who can support HP control on close range DD jobs . PLD not only holds hate fine in a none supportive role but given the opertunity to give support (aoe heals, aoe regen, aoe rampart, cover when needed, holy sucor, aoe stone skin) i can only see it as being able to keep hate even better.... 0.o what was the point of your post again?