Paladin Updates

[Alerith]

I don't understand why people think WAR should be the aoe tank and PLD the single target tank, when there's two aoe enmity abilities PLD gets... and it's supposed to be the tank.

Just because you like tanking on WAR doesn't mean it should be a better tank. It's a DD, and should be a viable tank but not the best tank in any situation.

Also for all the people claiming WAR takes more damage, I would say that's false. I just got WHM to 50 a day or two ago and have to say healing WAR's is much easier than healing PLD's, and I see PLD's in yellow much more often than I see WAR's in yellow.

AF War vs PLD, PLD has 6 more defense. but WAR has an inherently higher VIT and HP, which counter that 6 useless defense easily.

The new divine veil update will be nice, but it will only serve to at best tie PLD with WAR in terms of survivability.

Sounds like you party with PLDs that don't know how to use Sentinel, Rampart and Aegis Boon...

[Xianghua]

Sounds like you party with PLDs that don't know how to use Sentinel, Rampart and Aegis Boon...

This. And no job should ever wear full AF

[Alderton]

Sounds like you party with PLDs that don't know how to use Sentinel, Rampart and Aegis Boon...

WAR has access to Sentinel, Rampart, Foresight, and Featherfoot.

And even if the pld takes less damage overall, it doesn't matter unless your whm runs out of MP. The two take relatively the same amount of damage per hit, but WAR has a larger buffer for the larger attacks.

[Peptaru]

WAR has access to Sentinel, Rampart, Foresight, and Featherfoot.

And even if the pld takes less damage overall, it doesn't matter unless your whm runs out of MP. The two take relatively the same amount of damage per hit, but WAR has a larger buffer for the larger attacks.

You forgot vengeance.... you're welcome.

[Phobos]

Sounds like you party with PLDs that don't know how to use Sentinel, Rampart and Aegis Boon...

None of these compare to what WAR has available to it. I have PLD and am quite capable of using these abilities. While they're nice for defense, I honestly use them more as hate tools. Otherwise, PLD wouldn't even be close to WAR in enmity generation.

And the AF comparison is there as it's the only gear that is exclusive to either job. Any gear you claim you use on PLD that gives it better defense could also be used on WAR.

Also, PLD = Less healing is not true at all; if WHM's could cure your exact HP for an exact MP it would possibly be true. There's a lot of wasted MP in overcures, especially with PLD spending it's MP on cures at the same time as WHM. In fact, PLD can = more healing, because if you have a finicky WHM they'll want you in white 90% of the time, which happens faster to a 100% HP PLD than a 100% HP WAR.

[Alerith]

None of these compare to what WAR has available to it. I have PLD and am quite capable of using these abilities. While they're nice for defense, I honestly use them more as hate tools. Otherwise, PLD wouldn't even be close to WAR in enmity generation.

And the AF comparison is there as it's the only gear that is exclusive to either job. Any gear you claim you use on PLD that gives it better defense could also be used on WAR.

Also, PLD = Less healing is not true at all; if WHM's could cure your exact HP for an exact MP it would possibly be true. There's a lot of wasted MP in overcures, especially with PLD spending it's MP on cures at the same time as WHM. In fact, PLD can = more healing, because if you have a finicky WHM they'll want you in white 90% of the time, which happens faster to a 100% HP PLD than a 100% HP WAR.

If you are having overcuring problems, then there is poor communication between the PLD and the WHM, most likely coming from the PLD. The WHM obviously has the duty as a healer to cure at his/her discretion. The PLD should be the one who is constantly aware of when he/she should be curing themselves or others.

In regards to Holy Succor, it's greatest asset is curing other people when you have light damage. If you only have 400 damage, but your DRG has about 1000 damage, Holy Succor will heal both of you to full (roughly).

Used tactically, Holy Succor could help salvage a bad situation or prevent one from happening. You may have less HP than one of your DD, but if you can Sentinel, then cast Holy Succor, you'll do more good by healing one of your other team mates, because you're moderately protected from the next attack in which you may take only 200 damage but your ally would take 500-700.

NOTE: This next paragraph is speculation since the servers are still down:

Paladin may be able to benefit from Phalanx spam as well, once the Divine Veil update is finished. 20 seconds of solid shield blocking and no cooldown on Phalanx brings us back to the days when Gladiator could put up a buff and spam Phalanx. With the new, halved cooldown on Spirit's Within, that Phalanx spam can combo into a nicely damaging and enmity building combo.

NOTE: Speculation ends here.

WAR does great damage and can tank. Cool. I'm not disputing that fact. Nor am I disputing the fact that they do it better than PLD at this time.

What I am saying is that while PLD and WAR may take roughly the same damage, PLD has more utility in being able to quickly get their HP back up, without the support of a mage if need be. Aegis Boon on a hard hitting, physical TP move can regain everything you've lost from the prior four moves, and still opens up enmity options.

[Phobos]

What I am saying is that while PLD and WAR may take roughly the same damage, PLD has more utility in being able to quickly get their HP back up, without the support of a mage if need be. Aegis Boon on a hard hitting, physical TP move can regain everything you've lost from the prior four moves, and still opens up enmity options.

I see what you're saying for a lot of this, I suppose I just have a lot less utility for Holy Succor because by the time I'm able to get it off, because of either interrupts or having to do something else first (healing is not my #1 priority since it's someone elses #1 priority) my WHM usually cures someone before I can. I'm typically only tanking if I'm on vent with my WHM friend, so communication isn't an issue it's really just more of the whole - WHM cure is guarunteed, PLD cure can be interrupted. He feels safer tossing a cure on one of the DD's or me while I'm curing the same target, so be it.

Either way, that all really boils down to playstyle. Perhaps if stoneskin had a friendlier recast, WHM's would be more apt to throw DD's some stoneskin more often to see if the PLD cures them.

As with your speculation, Divine Veil could also make Holy Succor much more useable as you can count on it not getting interrupted (or do shield blocks not do that?).

PLD being able to get it's HP up faster, though, is simply false. Second Wind is available to WAR but not PLD, and WAR can get two stalling moves to use while waiting for some more cures. PLD gets none of these.

[Alerith]

PLD being able to get it's HP up faster, though, is simply false. Second Wind is available to WAR but not PLD, and WAR can get two stalling moves to use while waiting for some more cures. PLD gets none of these.

As Firon just pointed out: Aegis Boon.

You can't use it as freely as you can Second Wind, but you can get a far larger return from Aegis Boon. As far as stalling is concerned, Shield Bash and Flash do just fine for the most part, and if you are in such a dire situation, you can still Bloodbath a high damage WS like Spirit's Within. Also, if you're tanking a single target, interrupts shouldn't be an issue.

As far as shield blocking preventing interrupts, I honestly don't know for XIV. It works that way in XI, but only after a patch that finally gave PLD Shield Mastery.

[Phobos]

As Firon just pointed out: Aegis Boon.

You can't use it as freely as you can Second Wind, but you can get a far larger return from Aegis Boon. As far as stalling is concerned, Shield Bash and Flash do just fine for the most part, and if you are in such a dire situation, you can still Bloodbath a high damage WS like Spirit's Within. Also, if you're tanking a single target, interrupts shouldn't be an issue.

As far as shield blocking preventing interrupts, I honestly don't know for XIV. It works that way in XI, but only after a patch that finally gave PLD Shield Mastery.

As for Aegis Boon, I still consider using it for enmity (allowing for War Drum, Phalanx>SW) and over-time healing than I do for "oh-shi" healing.

Boodbath also applies for WAR, but I know what you mean. I think my problem with Aegis and Bloodbath for that low HP save yourself situation they're just not as instantaneous. Someone can take hate after using Aegis, or something could use a magic attack killing you before curing you. Bloodbath requires fast usage, but the ability use locks you from using anything for near a second, which makes it tough to rely on.

I agree, interrupts aren't much of an issue (unless things get hectic and you start acting stupid) but they still exist. If you mistime something it can be tough. I think the problem here is with the fact that after taking 1-2 hits you need to be cured, so you need to be on your toes a lot where WAR with the larger HP pool doesn't need to be cured as frequently to be safe.

[Alerith]

Someone can take hate after using Aegis

I know I only quoted this little bit, but please don't feel that I'm ignoring the rest of your post.

Just in regards to this little bit, if you were to lose hate at such a bad time, it's the exact kind of situation you would use cover for. You shield your party member and still make use of Aegis Boon.

This is a nice little trick for triggering Phalanx/Spirit's Within if you have someone else tanking. Pop Aegis Boon, then cover the tank. You'll get the shield block and cure, then you can follow through with your Spirit's combo.