Paladin Updates

[Lux_Rayna]

No stat changes were announced and the dev/mod post said just abilities.

Can't really see any obvious benefits, that isn't fanboy biased opinions, to changing to pld for either of the dungeons.

Healing probably. A PLD can take less dmg and self-heal as long as they bring ethers. A WAR cannot. The trade-off between WAR and PLD is down to dmg and hate-control. A PLD is easier to keep alive, but does less dmg. A WAR is harder to keep alive, but does a lot more dmg. WAR for speed run, PLD for long and drawn-out battles. It doesn't require fanboy opinions to come to this conclusion. Ppl are just too close-minded and insist on class/job elitism when there's little reason for it.

Yeah overall, with the current content, WAR > PLD for tanking...cuz there really is no long drawn out battle that would require a PLD's skillset. But if a speed run isn't the goal, i'd take PLD over WAR every time. Requires less WHMs (unless PLD fails to bring ethers), and frees up a slot for another DD. So now that I think about it, PLD could work in a speed run too.

Community lacks the ability to think outside the box and change party-setups to fit certain jobs. A WAR tank and a PLD tank should have different party setups...all range DD's and all melee DD's should also require different tank/healer setups. But as always ppl are sheep, and only blindly follow what the guy in front of them is doing without ever bothering to think for themselves.

[Treach]

Healing probably. A PLD can take less dmg and self-heal as long as they bring ethers. A WAR cannot. The trade-off between WAR and PLD is down to dmg and hate-control. A PLD is easier to keep alive, but does less dmg. A WAR is harder to keep alive, but does a lot more dmg. WAR for speed run, PLD for long and drawn-out battles. It doesn't require fanboy opinions to come to this conclusion. Ppl are just too close-minded and insist on class/job elitism when there's little reason for it.

Yeah overall, with the current content, WAR > PLD for tanking...cuz there really is no long drawn out battle that would require a PLD's skillset. But if a speed run isn't the goal, i'd take PLD over WAR every time. Requires less WHMs (unless PLD fails to bring ethers), and frees up a slot for another DD. So now that I think about it, PLD could work in a speed run too.

Community lacks the ability to think outside the box and change party-setups to fit certain jobs. A WAR tank and a PLD tank should have different party setups...all range DD's and all melee DD's should also require different tank/healer setups. But as always ppl are sheep, and only blindly follow what the guy in front of them is doing without ever bothering to think for themselves.

Thing is you have to take two whms for both AV and CC just due to the damage taken by everybody in the fight, a single whm can't heal the tank and the blms in ant fight, a single whm is extremely dangerous for chimera if the tank gets hit by a ws while ants are beating on people, too many adds for a single whm to heal on the av end boss, cyclops might be one maybe if you are lucky, moogle fight takes two also if just because rng can kill you.

Only fight that it is somewhat safe for just one whm is ifrit, that I have done before as both tank and cnj.

Just because you have a PLD doesn't mean you can drop a WHM for a dps, thats just crazy.

Also I'm not playing favorites with jobs, I go play whatever works best. If suddenly another class becomes the most efficient tank I'll swap to it, same goes for DPS classes.

[Lux_Rayna]

Thing is you have to take two whms for both AV and CC just due to the damage taken by everybody in the fight, a single whm can't heal the tank and the blms in ant fight, a single whm is extremely dangerous for chimera if the tank gets hit by a ws while ants are beating on people, too many adds for a single whm to heal on the av end boss, cyclops might be one maybe if you are lucky, moogle fight takes two also if just because rng can kill you.

Only fight that it is somewhat safe for just one whm is ifrit, that I have done before as both tank and cnj.

Just because you have a PLD doesn't mean you can drop a WHM for a dps, thats just crazy.

Also I'm not playing favorites with jobs, I go play whatever works best. If suddenly another class becomes the most efficient tank I'll swap to it, same goes for DPS classes.

Well it was like I was saying earlier...if you can do a WAR with 2 WHMS, you can probably do a PLD with one..if they are really good. They have to be really good, and by good I mean self-sufficient enough for a WHM to take care of an emergency. This would require a different playstyle, different positioning, and different tactics altogether. I havent tried it with CC or AV yet myself, but I imagine its worth a try. Point is if the PLD functions like a WHM, as in *mostly* self-sufficient, I dont see any reason why the one WHM cannot focus on other pt members as well.

Course if the minimum is 2 WHMs no matter what (which i find hard to believe but time will tell), then sure take the WAR. But if you're taking 3 WHMs and a WAR tank, might as well take 2 WHMs and a PLD tank instead. Problem is the community just hasn't gotten used to the job system and how to use jobs effectively. A PLD is *supposed* to be mostly self sufficient in exchange for pitiful dmg. What we are seeing is that many PLDs are *not* mostly self sufficient due to not carrying ethers, long skill CDs, etc. With the update, this should be fixed.

Besides, a WHM isnt the only class that can heal. In times of danger anyone with a cure should be curing themselves, and by danger I mean a big aoe that dropped everyone to red/dead. But WHMs have impressive healing capabilities..so combined with a PLD I think single WHM runs could be feasible...once ppl figure it out. They just havent figured it out yet.

[Jinko]

Well it was like I was saying earlier...if you can do a WAR with 2 WHMS, you can probably do a PLD with one..if they are really good. They have to be really good, and by good I mean self-sufficient enough for a WHM to take care of an emergency. This would require a different playstyle, different positioning, and different tactics altogether. I havent tried it with CC or AV yet myself, but I imagine its worth a try. Point is if the PLD functions like a WHM, as in *mostly* self-sufficient, I dont see any reason why the one WHM cannot focus on other pt members as well.

Course if the minimum is 2 WHMs no matter what (which i find hard to believe but time will tell), then sure take the WAR. But if you're taking 3 WHMs and a WAR tank, might as well take 2 WHMs and a PLD tank instead. Problem is the community just hasn't gotten used to the job system and how to use jobs effectively. A PLD is *supposed* to be mostly self sufficient in exchange for pitiful dmg. What we are seeing is that many PLDs are *not* mostly self sufficient due to not carrying ethers, long skill CDs, etc. With the update, this should be fixed.

Besides, a WHM isnt the only class that can heal. In times of danger anyone with a cure should be curing themselves, and by danger I mean a big aoe that dropped everyone to red/dead. But WHMs have impressive healing capabilities..so combined with a PLD I think single WHM runs could be feasible...once ppl figure it out. They just havent figured it out yet.

My main class is a WHM and generally we take 2, mainly as one for group healing and 1 for tank healing, granted you have a point that if both the pld and whm are good they could probably pull it off, but who is willing to take that risk.

I think most would rather have something to fall back on if the shit hits the fans, namely the whm biting the dust.

Perhaps if the server was rock solid there was no animation lock and no lag issues etc then 1 WHM would be a lot more feasible.

[Lux_Rayna]

My main class is a WHM and generally we take 2, mainly as one for group healing and 1 for tank healing, granted you have a point that if both the pld and whm are good they could probably pull it off, but who is willing to take that risk.

I think most would rather have something to fall back on if the shit hits the fans, namely the whm biting the dust.

Perhaps if the server was rock solid there was no animation lock and no lag issues etc then 1 WHM would be a lot more feasible.

For sure, but this is why I say its a community issue. Community is allergic to anything with a higher learning curve, which is why it hates melee DD's, stacks blms, and takes 2 WHMS all the time. SE cant fix this without making PLD blatantly overpowered, but then WAR would become a job no one would want. Once ppl start posting success with single WHM runs, the community will start to come around I think. Ppl can't assume the risk cuz they assume its just too risky/difficult/impossible. Get enough ppl pwning with it and itll become acceptable (like Ifrit manaburn, naked runs, etc).

[TirionCrey]

A PLD can take less dmg ... A PLD is easier to keep alive, ... A WAR is harder to keep alive, Ppl are just too close-minded and insist on class/job elitism when there's little reason for it.

I pointed out the phrases where you are totally wrong...what you are talking about is what SHOULD be the case...but it isn't, which is why everyone complains about PLD, cause it doesn't do what you are talking about. It doesn't take less dmg, it's not easier to keep alive. WAR is simple and straight a better PLD without self cures(except Second Wind, Bloodbath, Crit Hits...oh wait, yeah he is even better in that then PLD...)

You are talking about stuff you obviously got no clue about. Did you play PLD at all? Did you play WAR at all? I've been tanking from day 1 I started playing cause it's my prefered role and before this patch, even GLA was better for tanking then PLD...just stop arguing about stuff that's just a plain and simple fact and defending your point of view, when you are wrong and everybody who actually got a clue and plays PLD knows it.

There is no miracle "way of playing" PLD that will suddenly make it awesome, cause he lacks the skills to do so...either he get's buffed, or it won't happen. Un less they fix PLD in general, he will never be the tank you will take over a WAR. Simple fact.

I would prefer playing PLD over WAR, but PLD doesn't get the job done...WAR does...so I'm going with WAR, as long as I can fulfill my role as a Tank that's all that matters to me. But obviously I would prefer tanking on my prefered tanking class...

[Peptaru]

I would prefer playing PLD over WAR, but PLD doesn't get the job done...WAR does...so I'm going with WAR, as long as I can fulfill my role as a Tank that's all that matters to me. But obviously I would prefer tanking on my prefered tanking class...

As long as I can fulfill my role as a Tank that's all that matters to me. . . . lies. You can fulfill that role on Pld, you choose warrior cuz its easier. If you prefer tanking on Pld, then do it. Even silly vids online have Plds tanking new content with no problems.

[TirionCrey]

As long as I can fulfill my role as a Tank that's all that matters to me. . . . lies. You can fulfill that role on Pld, you choose warrior cuz its easier. If you prefer tanking on Pld, then do it. Even silly vids online have Plds tanking new content with no problems.

Given the DMG my group does, NO I CAN'T do my job on PLD, cause he won't keep hate over them, while WAR does...this is not a question of easier, this is a question of who's better tanking job and WAR is.

If you think WAR tanking is the an excuse for wanting to make things easier, why not play all your roles naked without any abilities used? This is just a stupid argument...

He does all the things that PLD does, just better...if you want to gimp yourself, that's your choice, but I want to perform as best as I can on my role, which is tanking, which WAR does and PLD doesn't...simple as that.

[Peptaru]

Given the DMG my group does, NO I CAN'T do my job on PLD, cause he won't keep hate over them, while WAR does...this is not a question of easier, this is a question of who's better tanking job and WAR is.

If you think WAR tanking is the an excuse for wanting to make things easier, why not play all your roles naked without any abilities used? This is just a stupid argument...

He does all the things that PLD does, just better...if you want to gimp yourself, that's your choice, but I want to perform as best as I can on my role, which is tanking, which WAR does and PLD doesn't...simple as that.

If you can't do your job on Pld then you fail compared to youtube vid posters.... this should make you sad if you're so awesome. lol Lots of people run one whm for these situations, Mistress is almost all 1 whm, 1 war, 6 mnk burn now... Ant takes a couple good blm/thms not an extra whm, i do concede that chimera can be pretty tricky just because of the various mechanics in his(or her, idk chimera gender!) fight leading to more errors that can occur.

[TirionCrey]

If you can't do your job on Pld then you fail compared to youtube vid posters.... this should make you sad if you're so awesome. lol Lots of people run one whm for these situations, Mistress is almost all 1 whm, 1 war, 6 mnk burn now... Ant takes a couple good blm/thms not an extra whm, i do concede that chimera can be pretty tricky just because of the various mechanics in his(or her, idk chimera gender!) fight leading to more errors that can occur.

Please argue reasonable...yeah 1 WHM does work with a WAr and Meele Burns(cause Miser will be down before the first add phase).

This is not working with a PLD tank, cause he won't hold hate over WAR...what are you even arguing about, you talk about how PLD does the job just as well as WAR with 1 WHM and you can take another DD over the 2nd WHM which will make up for the DMG loss of a WAR tank, then in your next post you clearly disagree on your own argument with your Meele burn setup, which doesn't work with a PLD, cause he can't hold hate...

Get your facts straight before even trying to get on my back. Your 1 WHM setups only work with a WAR tank, which I clearly stated doesn't work with a PLD, while you argue it would, but then contradict yourself 5min later.

Try to argue logical and reasonable, before jumping back and forth between "this works, that works" when only one version of it does work, either PLD + 2 WHM, or WAR + 1 WHM.

If you got no clue what you're talking about, just stop talking. PLD hate is crap compared to WAR, so Meele/Mage Burn PTs do not work with a PLD tank, simple as that and all your arguments are contradicting themselves over and over.