Emet-Selch Is Not That Tragic

[tokinokanatae]

I'm not sure what else you want me to say.

I certainly can't speak for Brinne, but I guess an acknowledgment that your, ah, fervent defense of a cold-blooded murderer for personal reasons isn't any different in form than anyone else's defense of a different cold-blooded murderer. Without the implying they are some how fascist or assault apologists along the way.

[Elladie]

I certainly can't speak for Brinne, but I guess an acknowledgment that your, ah, fervent defense of a cold-blooded murderer for personal reasons isn't any different in form than anyone else's defense of a different cold-blooded murderer. Without the implying they are some how fascist or assault apologists along the way.

This. So much this.

The person you are replying to really doesn't get that people are not defending Hades, they're objecting to the double standard being so strongly espoused here. And they don't seem to understand that clinging to this double standard nullifies any points they try to make. It makes me very sad to see this kind of moral certitude in people; it is the kind of thing that leads to discrimination and scapegoating. Understanding that people in real life are shades of grey doesn't mean letting them off the hook when they do something objectionable, but it does mean that forgiveness, reconciliation and restitution are possibilities. Folk who can't accept this in fiction - when it's so clearly demonstrated as to be impossible to miss unless you're missing it deliberately - fill me with despair for the world.

I'm old and I've learned this lesson the hard way.

[Brinne]

This. So much this.

The person you are replying to really doesn't get that people are not defending Hades, they're objecting to the double standard being so strongly espoused here. And they don't seem to understand that clinging to this double standard nullifies any points they try to make. It makes me very sad to see this kind of moral certitude in people; it is the kind of thing that leads to discrimination and scapegoating. Understanding that people in real life are shades of grey doesn't mean letting them off the hook when they do something objectionable, but it does mean that forgiveness, reconciliation and restitution are possibilities. Folk who can't accept this in fiction - when it's so clearly demonstrated as to be impossible to miss unless you're missing it deliberately - fill me with despair for the world.

I'm old and I've learned this lesson the hard way.

It's really not like Shadowbringers is remotely subtle about what it's trying to get at. It's been baked deeply into it from the beginning. Since before its release, once you realize that one of the title song's "two heroes" is Emet-Selch.

To define oneself in opposition to the other--an other bereft of complexity or nuance, wholly devoid of redeeming qualities. A villain. Indeed, there is a comfort and certainty in hatred...

But it is a false and fleeting comfort. Bought with lies we tell ourselves about who we are, what we must be, what we must do. And never you mind the cost--if anything, the more we offer up in sacrifice, the better! Do you not see? Brandon was right to hesitate. To doubt. The unwavering blade cares not whom it serves nor who it cuts.

ShB is really remarkably thematically well-woven and consistent, and it drives in its thesis of a situation where the idea of "villain" (a Jet-Black Villain, even!) is a fantasy construct used for comfort in a situation where sacrifice and violence is inevitable. Again, I don't think FFXIV as a whole puts forth that there ARE no black and white situations. They've been very clear we're meant to see Zenos as a pure villain. But in the scope of Shadowbringers and its three focus characters, this thesis is explored by all of them in different ways. Ardbert has been discussed, where he does some arguably irredeemable evils (again, literally driving a child to madness) - but the emphasis falls on his grief, pain, and good intentions, and that people who would paint him as a villain are wrong. Vauthry is shown as having childlike tantrums and screaming over, and over, and over again that WE ARE VILLAINS - because he refuses to move from his comfort zone, refuses to challenge his own way of thinking, question himself. G'raha Tia tries to (unconvincingly) play the role of villain for his plan in order to give us comfort about his sacrifice for the sake of us continuing to live.

But in a way, we're able to save G'raha Tia by seeing past his silly ruse and refusing to accept it at face value.

And, personally, I think we "save" Emet in the same way, in his final moments, by acknowledging him and letting him know that even though he has lost, and he believed that meant he would be enshrined as a villain - no, we're not playing that game. We see him as he is, and are able to let go of that comfort needed to justify what we've done - that great and terrible thing.

Shadowbringers! Is good!