Emet-Selch Is Not That Tragic

[15725462]

It seems FFXIV team is pushing for players to *'feel the essence of grieve and sadness'* of Hades, that the song Invincible highlights his emotions, (see the new post about the lyrics of the song of Invincible and how it's supposed to make us feel the essence) and while I do get that he's meant to be portrayed in a very tragic way, not unlike **Shadowlord** from *NieR:Gestalt/NieR:RepliCant*. Unfortunately I feel this isn't going to hit as hard as it did to the fanbase in HW or NieR game is because despite us understanding his lack of options and desperation, we as the player were not shown to resonate with Emet-Selch. He was an amazing villain, but I shall ever remember him as the sassy smart guy who lost because somehow 9/14th of a soul is more powerful than a whole soul? Plot armour? Definitely! But the thing is, we were never shown the tragic side to Emet-Selch. Giving us the Amaurot arc just before the final battle isn't going to help much either. I don't know if this is the devs being bad at writing or actually evolving as writers since ARR we had no emotional attachments whatsoever.
But then we have Ardbert and when they show how he's actually a good soul and everything he did, even back in 3.0+ story, once you play 5.0, you see his sacrifices, his pain, his constant repetition of how despite doing as told, everything failed, seemed more effective than Hades. Both though failed to create a scarring level tragedy that tragic villains create. You can't feel sorry for someone just because they say "I've been through shit", you have to let the players *experience* what it's like to be in his own shoes.

But that's my two cents, do you guys feel bad for Emet? I certainly felt bad cause after all these shits, I wanted him to stay, but not as emotional I felt learning about Shadowlord (and I didn't even play the old NieR games lol, just read the lore).

[SDaemon]

Personally I cant recall ever sympathizing with a villain in this game as much as I do Emet-Selch.

[Rasikko]

He isn't tragic. It's what happened to his people that is and he's wanting you to understand that.

[Gralna]

Would say nice click bait, but it's not even that nice. Better luck next time.

[Eloah]

It seems FFXIV team is pushing for players to *'feel the essence of grieve and sadness'* of Hades, that the song Invincible highlights his emotions, (see the new post about the lyrics of the song of Invincible and how it's supposed to make us feel the essence) and while I do get that he's meant to be portrayed in a very tragic way, not unlike **Shadowlord** from *NieR:Gestalt/NieR:RepliCant*. Unfortunately I feel this isn't going to hit as hard as it did to the fanbase in HW or NieR game is because despite us understanding his lack of options and desperation, we as the player were not shown to resonate with Emet-Selch. He was an amazing villain, but I shall ever remember him as the sassy smart guy who lost because somehow 9/14th of a soul is more powerful than a whole soul? Plot armour? Definitely! But the thing is, we were never shown the tragic side to Emet-Selch. Giving us the Amaurot arc just before the final battle isn't going to help much either. I don't know if this is the devs being bad at writing or actually evolving as writers since ARR we had no emotional attachments whatsoever.
But then we have Ardbert and when they show how he's actually a good soul and everything he did, even back in 3.0+ story, once you play 5.0, you see his sacrifices, his pain, his constant repetition of how despite doing as told, everything failed, seemed more effective than Hades. Both though failed to create a scarring level tragedy that tragic villains create. You can't feel sorry for someone just because they say "I've been through shit", you have to let the players *experience* what it's like to be in his own shoes.

But that's my two cents, do you guys feel bad for Emet? I certainly felt bad cause after all these shits, I wanted him to stay, but not as emotional I felt learning about Shadowlord (and I didn't even play the old NieR games lol, just read the lore).

Sorry, but I feel like you're missing the whole point of Emet-Selch as a villian. We aren't supposed to know any more about him than we do. His purpose is to show us the "ugly" truth of ourselves and the world that we live in. He's our villian, but he's not a villian, if that makes sense. His main purpose was to humanize the Ascians and make us realize how wrong we are in a lot of our misguided notions.

Aslo for context, we are sympathizing with Emet-Selch, since we don't know/have all the details. But we are empathizing with Ardbert and the other WoDs because we have all of the details.

[Mansion]

If I might use my 10+ useless years of classical literature studies etc. "tragic" in a work of fiction is a very specific code. It's not so much about evoking sympathy for the viewer/reader/player, and it's a bit more about the situation that character is in. Classical tragic characters could be summarized as "vainly trying to resist higher forces", which I don't think applies that much to Emet Selch.
- I don't think the WoL is a classical "tragic higher force", we did not beat Emet Selch like a breeze as it took quite some build up and stuff. Usually these forces are stuff like Gods, public opinion and moral.
- Emet Selch does not think his struggle is vain and will inevitably fail. Tragic heroes usually do realize the fight is pointless to some degree.

Now in a more common use of "tragic" meaning "sad", he is tragic but not far more than other villains (or characters) like Thordan, Yotsuyu, Fordola etc.
Emet-Selch's strong character writing is more about his attitude, backstory, sass and build up.

As said above, it's just that we are given a bit more of his own motivations rather than fighting blindly a villain with questionable motives (hello Zenos). This gives him more depth than Zenos or Thordan (or even Gaius in ARR).

[Enkidoh]

But even then the Ascians deserved their fall because of their hubris. The whole situation is a retelling of Shakespeare's The Tempest: wizard has god-like powers that go awry to the point they inadverntently give form to their own deepest darkest subconcious thoughts, their nightmares given flesh and end up destroying themselves accordingly.

So although Emet and his Ascian ilk are not entirelly without sympathy, they still thoroughly deserved their fate, especially as they still to this day thoroughly refuse to accept that they played a part in their own destruction, and Emet himself certainly did not win any favours with his racist ranting regarding the current races as below insect level.

So yeah, although I found Emet to not entirelly without sympathy, he still was an Ascian, still a tempered zealot of Zodiark (and well aware he is such), and more than the other Ascians, the one most directly responsible for everything that has gone wrong on the Source since the beginning of time due to his constant scheming in the shadows by careful plodding of rising nations with jingoistic ambitions towards becoming full-on evil Empires. And so not a tear was shed when he met the same fate crushed in white auracite as Lahabrea, Igeyohrm and Nabrieles.

And from that, the rest of the Ascians are on notice too. Enki is coming for each and every last godsforsaken one of them, with that white-clad scheming creep Elidibus the top of her list.

[TheMightyMollusk]

I found his story tragic, but not sympathetic, considering that the Ascians' downfall came from their own reckless abuse of creation magic.

[MitsukiKimura]

I personally prefer him over Zenos any day. We may not feel bad for him personally but I will say I felt bad for what his people went through. The dungeon amarout and his quote "Remember us, remember that we once lived"

[Erendis]

But even then the Ascians deserved their fall because of their hubris. The whole situation is a retelling of Shakespeare's The Tempest: wizard has god-like powers that go awry to the point they inadverntently give form to their own deepest darkest subconcious thoughts, their nightmares given flesh and end up destroying themselves accordingly.

Except we do not know that. All we know is very vague and everything is just an assumption.