Thread: PLD Raise Spell in 6.0?

Originally Posted by TheForce

I'm really glad some of you aren't responsible for developing this game. You always shoot down ideas and either don't state a reason or give a really poor one. It almost feels like you thrive on negativity. But OP, I'm in full support of giving PLD raise back (because we already used to have it).

The reasons for asking for it tend to be much poorer than those shooting it down. It's not like this is the first time it's come up for debate.

Originally Posted by Cabalabob

but could very well save a run.

You know what else saves a run? Not being bad. People will always ask for something to be easier instead of looking to improve themselves or others.

If PLD got a raise, it would be come REQUIRED to bring for all raids.

This is a terrible idea.

With healers having higher dps than PLD i would like a raise to be a part o PLD kit, since what else is for tanks to do now? Nothing really, some sort of contribution is more than welcome.

It would make it unique tank, summoner and redmage could so whats the problem with pld?

Originally Posted by Breadgehog

RDM suffers cure/raise tax by being the lowest caster DPS by far and bottom three DPS overall both in rDPS and aDPS. PLD used to have it and that was great for flavour, but short of putting it on a 6m cooldown or something similarly resrictive it would completely obliterate tank balance, especially on prog.

The highest dps job has a raise, this argument is invalid.

Originally Posted by VenKitsune

If PLD got a raise, it would be come REQUIRED to bring for all raids.

This is a terrible idea.

How so? Because last I checked RDM isn't brought to all raids and if you raise enough your DPS is so low that you will wipe. I also added drawbacks for using it. This spell is mostly for small parties like for stuff like deep dungeons and leveling dungeons. And of course for progression parties but all raids have enrages and two healers that can already raise.

I honestly love how people say this is a terrible idea without describing situations where it would be OP. If a PLD ends up raising in a full party the chances of success are still like 1% since my version would consume all your MP.

Originally Posted by Launched

Raise doesn't belong on a job that uses free combos most of the time.

Its not free, my version consumes all your MP, it takes 8s of your DPS combo or your divine seal cooldown, and it doesn't allow clemency till you get 2k MP.

Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

The reasons for asking for it tend to be much poorer than those shooting it down. And It's not like this is the first time it's come up for debate.

How so? As I said people keep saying it's a horrible idea but without examples to support where it would be OP.

The reality is that if PLD raises in Relevent content you will wipe due to enrage. This is more for progression and small parties.

Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

If you need a PLD to raise you, you deserve to wipe for being bad at the game.

Edit: why the hell does it risk spending possibly four times the amount of mana than any other job to raise.

To balance it out.

Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

If any class survives after a major party wipe or screw up it's definitely PLD, giving them a revive would be a tad broken from my experience.

Finally someone who presents a situation and doesn't just claim it's OP. While a valid point my version consumes all your MP, and the revived member still wouldn't have enough MP to raise for around 5-10s so your chances of success are still very low, and most likely enrage will kill you if everyone in your party is dead.

Originally Posted by Brightshadow

How so? Because last I checked RDM isn't brought to all raids and if you raise enough your DPS is so low that you will wipe. I also added drawbacks for using it. This spell is mostly for small parties like for stuff like deep dungeons and leveling dungeons. And of course for progression parties but all raids have enrages and two healers that can already raise.

I honestly love how people say this is a terrible idea without describing situations where it would be OP. If a PLD end up raising in a full party the chances of success are still like 1% since my version would consume all your MP.

So PLD who is in a really good spot now in terms of balancing damage versus utility as well as the tanks being balanced better than they've ever been and you wanna screw that to fill some random view you possess of the job. The only PLD that had a raise in FF was in FF XI which is an outlier in the line of Paladins that came before it.

PLD already makes subtle sacrifices for it's utility, which is nicely done by Square Enix. But you want to upset this balance, by slashing it's overall damage for no justifiable reason other than you "would love it" but give no actual worthwhile reasoning to it and then slap a huge and heavy handed penalty to top it off, as if PLD isn't getting cucked enough by losing damage simply by having a raise, it will be just ignored outright in every instance and its cost alone would be a detriment to the raid more than a boon, because healers and caster already have enough raises in the game at a fraction of the cost. This idea is simply just outright atrocious.

I respect your opinion you simply could have said no thanks I would prefer PLD to not have a raise because it would probably get a DPS nerf, but you didn't say that you just talked about how if a PLD raises you it's bad, and why it has a huge MP cost.

I'm not demanding for PLD to get raise I'm just having a discussion of the pros and cons.

And FF11 was not the only game they had raise I did my research it's like 4 games.

Originally Posted by VenKitsune

If PLD got a raise, it would be come REQUIRED to bring for all raids.

This is a terrible idea.

Progression groups maybe but def not farms.
And that’s a hard maybe. Pug learning groups don’t always want a RDM, and farm groups don’t always exclude it.

The reason it is a bad idea is simple, it throws a huge wrench into the balancing of the tank jobs.

Providing one job in a role something of value, even if it's use is fairly niche, without providing the other jobs of that role a variant of it or something of equivalent value unique to those jobs ends up tipping the scales in favor of that one job.

Providing PLD a battle raise, even at a cost like lost dps, is still an extra tool in it's kit that the other tanks just don't get which can bring a lot of extra value to the job in certain instances, such as during prog or if things go bad in a fight.

Basically it boils down to the following...
- A battle raise on a tank is a niche ability that provides unique but difficult to define extra value to that job.
- Because the value of such an ability is difficult to define, it is incredibly difficult to balance again other such niche abilities that could be given to the other jobs.
- Therefore you end up with the situation that in order to properly maintain balance between the tank jobs, either all tanks need to receive a battle raise or none of them do.

I mean it could happen and could work out okay, but it would require each tank job to also get something unique and niche added to their kits, which I already pointed out would be a balancing nightmare in of itself, and the player community to not flip out and cry foul. Based on how the community tends to react to most things, that is not a likely outcome.