Tenacity

[Deceptus]

They need to remove Det from tanks and make it a healer only substat. Tenacity needs to improve heals RECEIVED instead of heals done by yourself. That's a pretty glaring issue.

Make tanks take tenacity as their substat dump when they have nothing else to dump on.

[VenKitsune]

Tenacity certainly isnt parry levels of bad, but its still pretty bad, unfortunately. Its only real use is for Ultimate prog as there is the infinitesimally small chance that you might survive something with it just barely, but otherwise its useless everywhere else, especially in dungeons and extreme trials where the damage is rather minimal and proper cooldown management (Read: being good at your class) should be the solution and not melding tenacity.

It is however, simply just the way its designed. It increases self healing, damage, and reduces damage taken, so understandably its weaker than DH or crit...But i mean, the game is designed in such a way that means that the only real threatening damage to tanks is tank busters, thats why healers can dps so much of the time.

One thing they could do, is removing tenacity as a substat built in to gear, and only have it available to meld, and beef it up a bit so then atleast there would be some decision making as to if it should be melded or not. They could also remove the extra damage done part, and make it a purely defensive stat...But that'd be very easy for it to fall in the same pitfalls parry did.

It was a good idea, Tencity, but as it currently is, it simply wasn't meant to be.

[Hash_Browns]

They need to remove Det from tanks and make it a healer only substat.

Make tanks take tenacity as their substat dump when they have nothing else to dump on.

Why make tanks worse instead of tenacity better?

[Rasikko]

That whoosh sound was so loud I thought a plane flew over me.

Oh wow this was goooooood..

[Myric]

Tenacity certainly isnt parry levels of bad, but its still pretty bad, unfortunately.

There is like a 2% difference in dps between dhit and tenacity builds. That's a very small difference and you make it sound way worse than it actually is. Basically meld what you like, it doesn't really matter for 99% of the player base. This is obviously different for world firsts and everyone should be min/maxing the best they can on those.

[Barraind]

There is like a 2% difference in dps between dhit and tenacity builds. That's a very small difference

You lose damage, and gain enough mitigation to save your healer the equivalent of 1 heal every 13 casts, AT BEST. Which means chain pulling enough things to be hitting you 100% of the time, and ignores the reality of benediction, assize, regen ticks, asylum, scholar faerie, and other things that arent only direct heals.

If 14 used EQ or WoW's boss mechanics, tenacity would be great. I would trade significant amounts of damage to gain 8% more mitigation in EQ (thats the equivalent of 2-3 expansions worth of tank AA's) or during the first half of wow's lifetime. It does very little against tankbuster, wait, wait, melee, wait, wait, wait, ae, wait, wait, melee, wait, wait, ect. 14 doesnt stack boss tankbusters as an instant-cast ability it uses while hitting you 2-5 times a second for half your hp. It doesnt have raid bosses that can accidentally curbstomp your tank through a 50% mitigation cooldown when it crits them 6 times during your heal cast.

Tenacity isnt very good because you dont have to worry about random spike damage. If you can live through a tankbuster, or sometimes a tankbuster + 1 melee, congrats, you have enough hp and mitigation for that fight to never kill you.


IF you could stack enough tenacity to not need single target heals (at any time that time couldnt be better used) at all, and could be covered fully by AE's, regen pulses and incidental ae healing, it would be significantly better.

[Thamorian]

Ignore em bro. I've melded Tenacity for as long as I can remember and have Tanked Savage and countless EX Primals without any issues at all. There's a lot of poisonous individuals and extremists who play this game, just gonna tune em out

No one has ever said that you can't clear Savage or Ex with tenacity melds in the history of ever. Problem with tenacity is though does not give a big enough boost to defence and offence combined to make it worthwhile for most people.

Some good reads about tenacity can be found in a couple reddit posts from this year:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...e_breakpoints/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...to_be_avoided/ (the comments sections)

And a quote with a couple good questions:

• Will it reduce incoming damage to the point where healers gain enough GCDs to offset my loss in personal DPS?
  
• Will it reduce damage enough to stop me from dying?

I would go for tenacity myself if I found it worth it but instead I meld DH and Crit to help meet DPS checks since a lot of random DPS can't play their jobs at even a decent level as indicated by the boss hitting enrage. Most fights don't have difficult DPS checks to make if all the DPS played at a decent level but most random parties will have one (maybe two if lucky) superb DPS while the other DPS will have far below acceptable DPS levels. Been a fair few fight where we barely beat the boss by the skin of our teeth, a few times actually party wiping as we killed the boss but still counted.

[TheForce]

No one has ever said that you can't clear Savage or Ex with tenacity melds in the history of ever. Problem with tenacity is though does not give a big enough boost to defence and offence combined to make it worthwhile for most people.

Some good reads about tenacity can be found in a couple reddit posts from this year:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...e_breakpoints/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...to_be_avoided/ (the comments sections)

And a quote with a couple good questions:

I wish you were right about that, but I've met some individuals who unfortunately do believe that.

[RitsukoSonoda]

I feel like part of the reason tenacity doesn't add more to damage mitigation is the majority of the game appearing to be toned to hold people's hands. The enemies damage is scaled back in party duties because they don't want the squishy non tank people running the risk of getting 1 shotted when they stand in something they shouldn't or run off ahead when they shouldn't drawing aggro. Because of this more people get to the point they look at nothing but their DPS and don't bother with anything else. That said it hasn't stopped me from running skillspeed/tenacity melds with DH as the backup if I cant get full materia bonus on the first 2 stats. It just feels better to me. Then again I don't run a parse and don't really care about dps unless I'm in a situation where I can visibly see I am doing more damage as the tank than the DPS in my party.

[Hasrat]

You lose damage, and gain enough mitigation to save your healer the equivalent of 1 heal every 13 casts, AT BEST.

Calling your bias, and requesting calculation on how many GCDs that 2% difference in damage makes.

If extra Tenacity only maybe saves the very occasional heal cast, I'd be willing to suspect extra Direct Hit only maybe saves you an occasional extra attack.

Basically, if your claim were flipped around, would it still hold just as true? "You gain mitigation, but lose enough damage to maybe require an extra hit from time to time to compensate."

Or, shorter, "The difference is minimal and rarely effects any outcome in the majority of content."