The Frontlines Premade issue has not been fixed.

[BloodRubyXII]

And forced syncs will fix this? Nah. It'll just make crap and disorganized teams that will make the situation worse. A 4 man party can't do squat to fix a bad team against 48 others. First it's "bots ruined pvp" then it was "8 man parties ruined pvp" and now it's "q syncs ruin pvp". Next it will be forced syncs followed by "multiple 4 man parties ended up on GC XYZ and ruined pvp". Point is, pvp has always been broken the way its set up. However every "fix" just separates people more. People complain when things are hard, there will always be an excuse.

Well ye, first thing I'll wind up doing is go back to playing with my mates, only reason I don't do it now is
A) They're all solo queue stacking on Flames, I can't; and I don't want to queue like that.
B) I'd rather wait the extra and solo queue on Adders, where some of my friends are anyway, than freelance in a premade, because I'm probably more likely to win anyway lol.

But the end result is literally everyone with mates that queue fl in the discords I'm in are gonna run little groups, whether it's 2, 3 or 4 people, and if several of them happen to wind up on the same GC, which is very possible with only one match going at a time generally; people will be worst off overall lol. At least now we're actually reasonably spread out because a lot of "us" (ie regular ranked feast players that possess enough common sense to do well in Frontlines) don't queue as Freelancer and we're split on a lot of gcs, with that stupid queue sync premade on Flames, a few of us are in Adders, and a lot of the "older" lot are on Mael which is obviously the traditional PvP GC. But if queues become a clown roulette where you can get placed anywhere; losing the draw where you can be on the weakest GC by far multiple times in succession is going to get old fast.

[Moonlite]

How can it possibly be worst then this? https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...cgroup=Crystal This is not the only one like this, just the worst. Literally the only way it can get worse is if the people who were abusing the system take their ball and go home and we get no matches at all. But that is subjective too no game or a horrible game.



Ques are already a little sad during the day at about 3pm east coast time US when I start queing It can be 30 mins. Some people who miss pops because the way the duty finder fills is strange can be sitting at over an hour. Then the people who don't want change will claim that the change is bad because feast will siphon off even more people queing.

[Noitems]

How can it possibly be worst then this? https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...cgroup=Crystal This is not the only one like this, just the worst. Literally the only way it can get worse is if the people who were abusing the system take their ball and go home and we get no matches at all. But that is subjective too no game or a horrible game.



Ques are already a little sad during the day at about 3pm east coast time US when I start queing It can be 30 mins. Some people who miss pops because the way the duty finder fills is strange can be sitting at over an hour. Then the people who don't want change will claim that the change is bad because feast will siphon off even more people queing.

Keep in mind that the standings list your win for a GC even if you go Freelancer. For all we know a majority of these people could just be Freelancing. It's not the most accurate to judge, however I do know a fair amount of people in there that are almost always on Mael normally. When people get their mounts those spots will start dropping for those just syncing in.

[Moonlite]

Keep in mind that the standings list your win for a GC even if you go Freelancer. For all we know a majority of these people could just be Freelancing. It's not the most accurate to judge, however I do know a fair amount of people in there that are almost always on Mael normally. When people get their mounts those spots will start dropping for those just syncing in.

OK, thank you but I do know how achievements work in pvp. I am sure you meant well as some don't understand how they work still and we have had freelancer since HWs


Now lets cover a few things these same people that scream murder that they don't want to play with others are freelancing. Next you just admitted they are refusing to que other GCs while getting their mount. Finally and the most flawed part of your response. Somehow those people freelanced and won on adders and flames. Yet at the same time while they were winning on the adders and flames only 5(maybe 4) of those adders and flames got wins as well. You can not seriously be using the they might have won as freelancer. The math to make that leap is astounding. Someone who is way better at math then me could probably come up with some sort of formula/number. My just number out of the air. Is if one GC has over 80 of 100 spots they are not freelancing. That would still mean that one GC has at least 8 times more winners.



What also came up today with some one was "How would these same people feel if a group found a loophole to que a full party into feast?" I was kind of shocked I hadn't thought of that. But I am sure also some people are on discord and move into channels with each other when they get together in a match. So maybe these people don't care what they do to get wins, was what I came up with.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

As someone who's FC used to regularly que for the Feast naked so we could farm for Wolf Marks faster, being trampled by people who know what they are doing doesn't really affect my overall disappointment that PvP instills. I get why they made PvP actions the way they are now but I miss the days when your normal hotbar just did slightly different things. In those days I literally spammed status effects (especially BLM sleep or WHM holy) and had a blast doing it.
The PvP of today feels very pared down and meh. I understand the failsafes but like... I remember the days where duelling was more of a thing and if they gave a Wolf Mark payout for things like that, however small, I think we'd see even the staunch fashionistas like me start to learn how to PvP better.

Honestly, if they did the achievements based on number of matches or number of marks earned (and just made winning give you a better chunk), no one would care about premades using outside tools to get the wins because winning would only get you the achievements faster. As it is, I suppose I'll never get that Commander jacket. T-T

[Crit]

Improving on your own accord, encouraging your team to work together, listening to any call a potential leader makes, and going out of your way to make calls still is all out of the question I assume

Oh too much effort? Got me there scoobs!

[Mango24]

It should go without saying that ensuring there is a more even distribution of skilled players rather than lumping them all together will undoubtedly improve the overall balance of matchmaking. I completely understands the feeling that limiting our ability to play with our friends is a real unfortunate consequence but it's one that's necessary to ensure the most evenly matched matches. Sure, you might get on the "bad" team here and there... but that's always going to happen in any competitive team based game.

What they ought to do is commit to improving pvp overall, add more game modes that allow you to play with more friends and still be competitively balanced, and improve job complexity little by little to improve each job and add individuality/depth.

That would be amazing... but fixing syncing queues is our best first step.

[JuliusRath]

It should go without saying that ensuring there is a more even distribution of skilled players rather than lumping them all together will undoubtedly improve the overall balance of matchmaking. I completely understands the feeling that limiting our ability to play with our friends is a real unfortunate consequence but it's one that's necessary to ensure the most evenly matched matches. Sure, you might get on the "bad" team here and there... but that's always going to happen in any competitive team based game.

What they ought to do is commit to improving pvp overall, add more game modes that allow you to play with more friends and still be competitively balanced, and improve job complexity little by little to improve each job and add individuality/depth.

That would be amazing... but fixing syncing queues is our best first step.

As someone that does queue sync to play with friends, this is inaccurate. There have been plenty of times where we've been out numbered and outplayed. It's happening even to this day.
I stated it before, the problem isn't premades/queue syncing, it's purely skilled players being pitted against unskilled players and the inexperienced, unskilled players are quick to complain about being unable to win. You shouldn't be winning if you're unskilled. PvP isn't a handout system.
When they took away 8 mans, my friends and I moved to adders in an attempt to play together. It worked for the most part. Nothing really happened then because no one else really cared. But once the new mode came out everyone wanted to win for achievements and the mount.... So, when they saw Adders winning, they all moved. And now you have 40 minute Adder queues because of it. It's casuals looking for what they want and thats just for a quick, easy path to the top.

But what will happen is once these casual players are done getting their shit they will not play anymore. By changing to forced freelancer, not only are you hurting the lore and dedication of those that stick with their gc, but you're also hurting the dedicated pvp base that matters to maintain the mode in the long run. Come the 24th, I won't be playing anymore FL, there's no point. I don't care about winning, I care about playing with my friends and having a good time with them. SE is keen to think that I only like playing with 3 out of my 12+ friends. And I won't be the only one doing this. Catering to the casual players will never sustain PvP.

If they want to force freelancer. Bring back 8 man groups, ESPECIALLY if you're doing 72 mans only. There are people in AUS that can't even play in their afternoon hours when queues die and this mode isn't even 2 weeks old. Imagine it in a month. In 3 months. 8 men can't carry a 24 man group. Flames are a testament to that.

[BloodRubyXII]

OK, thank you but I do know how achievements work in pvp. I am sure you meant well as some don't understand how they work still and we have had freelancer since HWs

What also came up today with some one was "How would these same people feel if a group found a loophole to que a full party into feast?".

Achievements have nothing to do with what he said lol.


Also the two scenarios are not comparable. Feast queues are based on role so if all 4 of you tried syncing, your healer would get an instant pop, the rest of you would be in a 5-20 minute queue. Other than it being scummy there's a reason no one does it. Frontlines do not have the same system.

[Myon88]

I gotta say it's pretty funny to see the reasons premade lifers like to throw out to justify the state of frontlines and being able to farm pugs. Yeah just magically coordinate 72 strangers of questionable skill and you might have a somewhat fair match. It's kinda like corporate fat cats telling the poor to 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps' knowing it's a fool's errand in reality. Sorry, but anyone can tell it's an argument in bad faith.

It reminds me of similar complaints in other PvP games about hidden elo ratings and 'skill based matchmaking'. People were upset they were getting matched against others of the same skill as them, instead of being able to have fun preying on newbies.

PvPers tend to pride themselves having skill, especially the kind of skill PvE content doesn't teach you. But you can see how much of that is a sham when it comes to things like this.