[Suggestion] Trick attack cooldown scalling with Skill Speed

[Nemekh]

SE's fixes of late to strict 60s CDs and allowing leniency in their use has been to reduce the cd by 5s to 55s in order to allow for drift to not be a problem (and being able to catch up and correct potential drift). That's what was done for Summoner's Trances and Machinist with Reassemble.

It's fair to say you'd still want to adhere to the minute alignment windows. So far it's working pretty nicely in that regard for SMN, but offers its own points of confusion for players. Would that achieve the same desired effect?

[Shalfu]

Would that achieve the same desired effect?

I'm not even asking for such a big window of leniency to bring confusion to newer players, but a gcd leniency for any player to use it and not cause any type of problems to their group no matter which level the ninja is.

We've had this window of leniency in some cooldowns during 5.0x, for example, bunshin wasn't a strict 120s but 110s due to ninki generation interference.

5 seconds would bring up some issues towards personal dps, but a gcd recast adjustment will totally nullify the consequences of clipping your gcd for trick or drifting.

[Jukebox12]

Ok why is everyone thinking attack speed is a skill speed or spell speed these are two extremely different things stop labeling as the same. 15% Sps/Sks is a tiny compare to 15% Attack speed. STOP MISLEADING people

[Shalfu]

SkS =/= Attack Speed. TA need not scale itself around the common GCD, only by how much that GCD will be further varied by gear.

It doesnt vary just by gear but also in which step of the rotation you are, as explained on the OP. There are 2 different timers in which you cannot find a correct GCD tier to perfectly fit in the two of them the trick attack without clipping your gcd or delaying trick.

So I thought, too, until I saw the current research on ping-based uptime loss. It's double the ping. The allowable latency is half the remaining GCD gap. Just as the fact that GCDs let us queue (and more importantly, query) .5 seconds early only allows us 250 ms of ping before penalty. Else a 500 ms ping player would still be spamming away at GCDs just as quickly as you do. ...They don't.

you are mistaken how gcd and ogcd works

Yes, they are. The only thing that would make it not so is to follow a different rotation or lost uptime. Given the same rotation, as strictly given in my statement, the intervals allowing for a perfectly time TA are fixed to the same extent any other oGCD in the game is.

I'm not really a fan of repeating myself. Try the class and show me your findings, because i really think you are not speaking from experience here but feelings.

Ok why is everyone thinking attack speed is a skill speed or spell speed these are two extremely different things stop labeling as the same. 15% Sps/Sks is a tiny compare to 15% Attack speed. STOP MISLEADING people

Huton has an effect of reducing your weaponskill recast time by 15%, it wouldn't affect trick unless trick is made a Weaponskill on the ogcd.

That said, Shadow Fang does get his cd reduced from Huton and SKS as its a weaponskill, bringing it to a comfortable 59.08seconds of recast time which will never make you clip your gcd or delay shadow fang to fit a 60s rotation, whereas trick, it is current state does.

I'm just asking to have the same treatment as Shadow Fang has for Trick attack so we can have a smoother rotation.

[Shurrikhan]

It doesnt vary just by gear but also in which step of the rotation you are, as explained on the OP. There are 2 different timers in which you cannot find a correct GCD tier to perfectly fit in the two of them the trick attack without clipping your gcd or delaying trick.

Yes, because of... as you said the inclusion of TCJ creating a different modular interval every other minute. So why use a tangential fix rather than targeting the issue itself? Otherwise those 10.5/14.0 seconds are still going to increasingly throw a wrench in your works every other minute.

You know what, by all means, scale it with Attack Speed from a start of 70 seconds and just require players to track its actual raid timing off a 3rd party program or some other correlative skill, but at least fix the actual issue, then, because otherwise those 3.5 seconds on TCJ are going to have a varying mod time relative to the and repeat the whole issue again despite the fuddled tooltip you'd have created alongside demanding an entire new category of code (note, there are no oGCDs that scale with Attack Speed--none).

you are mistaken how gcd and ogcd works

I'll just leave this here then...

[Tec_Guy]

...alongside demanding an entire new category of code

Empyreal Arrow in 4.x was a weaponskill that was oGCD.

[Shurrikhan]

Empyreal Arrow in 4.x was a weaponskill that was oGCD.

Didn't they say that it was simply mislabelled, thus removing its SkS scaling as a "bug". In HW, for instance, when it truly was a weaponskill, it inflicted the GCD (even though it wasn't affected by other skills' GCD infliction), which is why it still cost a 600ms-GCD of uptime loss even when perfectly used.

And as soon as it became an Ability, it lost SkS-scaling.

But, yeah, hopefully then there's still some precedent code that wasn't in itself problematic (since I don't see why else they'd want to remove EA from scaling instead of just adding BL to it for further mitigation of desync issues).

[Beewer]

You know what, by all means, scale it with Attack Speed from a start of 70 seconds and just require players to track its actual raid timing off a 3rd party program or some other correlative skill

No need to track it, Shadow Fang works the same way and aligns perfectly every minute, it'll be the exact same timer.

Still doesn't need to happen ninja is fine

And the suggested change won't affect that in any way. It's just a QoL change aiming to make nin able to press Trick Attack every 60 seconds on a constant basis instead of having it naturally drift away due to how GCDs works

[Shalfu]

And since i ask for proofs, here is mine

https://i.imgur.com/Cwaoxbb.png

this is what happens with trick when you dont clip your gcd to recast it as soon as you can

http://bit.ly/NIN-Rotation

and there is the work we made on the rotation itself where you can see, adjust for yourself, and try as many combinations as you want to see that trick doesnt fit current gcd sks tiers with ninjutsus.
On that sheet, you can check the column of trick attack cd, from there, you can assume you can cast trick attack if the previous action has next to it trick attack cd being lower than 1.4, if its not lower than 1.4. (gcd time -0.7 from gcd animation lock leaves 1.4s of room to cast trick) you will be clipping your gcd unless you use another GCD before trick.

I could aswell link you all the sheet variations that i made to test that out https://i.imgur.com/cQ2nVgI.png But i think its beyond the point.

[Jukebox12]

really dumb.

Why did yea quote me when you just answered my quote for me