Thread: Ranged in 5.1

Originally Posted by Nedkel

Not really it does happen often in small fights.

No it's irrelevant because the game isn't balanced for 1v1.

Originally Posted by Ryaz

I think I'm going to switch up my PvP classes for my daily frontlines. I can use my Gunbreaker or something. Melee does seem to get shafted in the bigger battles. How is MCH? Weak compared to DNC and BLM?

And the lag... omg. My sound will cut out and my attacks will take several seconds to register at times in big fights.

Compared to those two? Yes
Weak overall? No, defensively could be better and there are better options. But weak isn't how I'd describe MCH. RDM is something I'd called weak.

Frontlines in JP is played differently from NA and EU.

Players are much more coordinated and there's often a 'push-pull' effect between the three GC's when engaging in combat. Whereas, NA and EU players tend to sit and defend objectives... basically 'let them fight' mentality, including much more individualism (or lack of cooperation) between teammates (or call outs are largely ignored).

In Mana DC, Seal Rock for example, you'll notice several matches with no communication in chat among players, yet they all tend to move together as one team. Sometimes you may have an experienced player making call outs, which I argue are very intelligent call outs... using waypoint markers to lead a GC to capturing tomeliths, or to outright IGNORE the tomeliths in favor of fighting another GC whenever it's much more advantageous (when the team has more momentum). Range DPS can make a difference in this style of gameplay, especially for dancer and black mage. In Shatter, sometimes big ice is ignored in favor of capturing bases and getting more kills. Whereas, in NA and EU, big ice is heavily emphasized, and players don't look at the bigger picture.

IMO, the gameplay for large scale PvP in the Japanese servers is much more developed than NA and EU. Which is why they can use BLM to great effect in Secure and Rival Wings, whereas players in NA and EU scratch their heads wondering 'how?'... It really is a different style of play, and IMO the Japanese meta is superior.

My recommendation to everyone here, if you haven't already, create an alt in a Japanese server, and play several matches of Frontlines. It will be an eye opener on how FFXIV's large scale PvP modes are played, as-well-as help you develop or improve your game.

This is just my opinion, and I feel I can't prove this point unless I can get an entire GC from Japan to play in an NA/EU match, and find out what the result would be. I hypothesize that it will be a one-sided match akin to an 8v8v8 with a premade vs. two other non-premade teams, in favor of the JP team that knows how to utilize range DPS to greater effect.

I could be wrong... bleh... but that's what I've observed thus far in Mana DC.

That's my two cents. XD

In terms of melee DPS for Frontlines, I feel that NIN and DRG are superior. SAM can also be strong, however it depends on who plays it.

MNK has a very fast and effective burst for Feast, but because of the lack of 'escape' or gap openers, it's vulnerable to being caught in Frontlines. Whereas, NIN, DRG, and SAM can gap close multiple times as-well-as escape to disengage (with Shukuchi, Soten, and Elusive Jump).

NIN and DRG have excellent 'kill steal' abilities with assassinate and high jump (or piercing talon... or mirage dive) to help build up battle high (thus more damage). Which is why you'll often find them at the top of the kill list in the end game results. For SAM, stealing kills is a little trickier. For MNK, I can play it well in Shatter where I can do big damage to ice and 1v1 (1v2 with no healer involved) against range DPS with no other opposing teammates to support my target... I think this is the best way to get kills with the job, the exception being that you're in a team with a good healer, where your survivability is improved.

MNK and SAM have some very effective bursts, and as such they're very strong in Feast. But for Frontlines, I tend to avoid MNK because of its lack of escape or disengage ability. SAM can be a great melee DPS to use in Frontlines, but I find it to be more work required to get battle highs (and I'm not very good at SAM to begin with). But it's not impossible. I've seen some excellent SAMs in Frontlines, just not many.

Originally Posted by Fannah

Overall, I agree it's obvious the game is not balanced for 1v1, but I'd like to point out it's still relevant as some people might go alone to capture opponent's base, meet someone in the process, you are 1v1 then, and once you're on the base, you often have someone keeping it, or just someone who died recently and just came back to live and come at you because you're capturing their base. Knowing your class can or cannot be good at that kind of thing (1v1) is then relevant or you'll just waste your time and your team time as well.
It's still not balanced for it, but if you are good at it with a good class, you can even 1v2 some people keeping a base (it's a bit harder now with potions, tho).
And when you see a whole opponent team taking time to come back to base to recapture it, you might give a fair advantage to your team beating the rest of their team.

I mean, overall, it does happen, even if you don't do it, some others do. So it's better having them good at it, even if it's not an optimal strat.

Niche scenarios are not really something worth considering and is not relevant enough to weigh what ranged job is better than the others in the situation of which will take the longest to feed the enemy team outside of their own spawn. They are all clearly bad at it and I feel like it's asking to evaluate which car will drive best if we dropped them into the ocean. Technically I can find one that might last longer than the other but it's not really meriting consideration. It is so far down the list of a dozen things ranged are meant to be doing in FL that it doesn't matter and the designers won't (and shouldn't) spend any time on it.