Can we please put Coils of Bahamut in normal raid roulette?

[Endeleon]

Before you reply with "Raid roulette is supposed to be difficult" then I'd like to remind you that the Alexander raids are in them and there's maybe 4 of them that have any difficulty whatsoever.

But honestly, I am sick of getting the same Alexander raids constantly, we need more variety and it's incredibly stupid that new players have to be told "Do them in pf with undersized" to complete them. That isn't a fun way to complete them the first time, at all.
And for the more experienced players, it doesn't really matter whether they get Fist of the Father for the millionth time or if we start getting Coils too.

So SE either needs to remove Alexander raids, or put in Coils. That's the only logical choices.

[Lilseph]

Yes, but the Coils don't have a normal difficulty per se. Some of them got nerfed and have echo, but none of the final fights (Twintania and Nael) got nerfed. They are still savage levels of dificulty. FCOB got absolutely zero nerfs, they only slapped echo on it. Since you'd get level sync'd to 50, most of your skills removed and you'll have to deal with raids that are way more difficult than Alexander NM and Omega NM, people will insta-quit.

[Noitems]

Okay you think you want this, but you really don't.

T9 was a nightmare to run even unsynced at level 70 since you still had to do the mechanics. It did make it easier, but one mistake would cause a wipe.

Imagining that instance synced, with randoms who are doing it for their first time with our current df trends, would be a missing layer of Dante's Inferno.

[Endeleon]

Okay you think you want this, but you really don't.

T9 was a nightmare to run even unsynced at level 70 since you still had to do the mechanics. It did make it easier, but one mistake would cause a wipe.

Imagining that instance synced, with randoms who are doing it for their first time with our current df trends, would be a missing layer of Dante's Inferno.

That's how Eden is too basically though. One incompetent person can wipe the whole instance, which I see happen a fair few times with E2 and the stack/aoe split that goes off at the same time. I do agree that the skills culling would make things difficult, and I didn't think about that. Especially how they haven't really considered balancing for the lower levels. But there still needs to be some option for this. As it is, it's basically content that isn't even actually there.

[Noitems]

That's how Eden is too basically though. One incompetent person can wipe the whole instance, which I see happen a fair few times with E2 and the stack/aoe split that goes off at the same time. I do agree that the skills culling would make things difficult, and I didn't think about that. Especially how they haven't really considered balancing for the lower levels. But there still needs to be some option for this. As it is, it's basically content that isn't even actually there.

You need to understand that there's a big difference between Coils and Normal Raids.

Coil even back in it's original form was THE final piece of content you could run, it was the highest level thing you could do. It was also a piece of story content relating to 1.0 which has canon events in it, so many people would run it for the completion. The mechanics and dps checks were crucial there, as it was essentially savage before it even existed.. In the current days from HW they specifically divided the Normal and Savage versions so that those who wanted to run for story could just do normal, and those who wanted the challenge could run savage.

Coils has waaaaay too much shit going on that a df group of new players wouldn't understand, hell you even use E2 as an example and that's a breeze compared to some of the coil fights. PF exists so people can run these fights in whatever way they choose, and many people will gladly help for a story run. However anything beyond that will be a test of patience and with how many sprouts are jumping into EX trials without knowing a single thing of what they're getting into, I don't want to imagine coils in the rous.

[Endeleon]

You need to understand that there's a big difference between Coils and Normal Raids.

Coil even back in it's original form was THE final piece of content you could run, it was the highest level thing you could do. It was also a piece of story content relating to 1.0 which has canon events in it, so many people would run it for the completion. The mechanics and dps checks were crucial there, as it was essentially savage before it even existed.. In the current days from HW they specifically divided the Normal and Savage versions so that those who wanted to run for story could just do normal, and those who wanted the challenge could run savage.

Coils has waaaaay too much shit going on that a df group of new players wouldn't understand, hell you even use E2 as an example and that's a breeze compared to some of the coil fights. PF exists so people can run these fights in whatever way they choose, and many people will gladly help for a story run. However anything beyond that will be a test of patience and with how many sprouts are jumping into EX trials without knowing a single thing of what they're getting into, I don't want to imagine coils in the rous.

I've done them though. i do not agree with you that they are harder than normal eden.

[BloodRubyXII]

That's how Eden is too basically though. One incompetent person can wipe the whole instance, which I see happen a fair few times with E2 and the stack/aoe split that goes off at the same time. I do agree that the skills culling would make things difficult, and I didn't think about that. Especially how they haven't really considered balancing for the lower levels. But there still needs to be some option for this. As it is, it's basically content that isn't even actually there.

Yes, but whilst people in this game have proven on numerous occasions they can play for years and still lack basic common sense, people in Eden are 80 and by then will have some basic comprehension of how to adapt to raid mechanics. Coils are 50 and were considered difficult for their time even on normal; if the content leading up to unlocking it was of considerable difficulty for new players to the point they'd make it up the steep learning curve to be able to beat coils, then sure, but given their end content is Nabriales who is now a joke and Steps of Faith which is equally hilarious because it only takes a couple of people to know what they're doing to finish it; it's simply too big of a jump. Common sense eventually does prevail in Edenscape when there are a couple of people that'll turn the raid into a weakness debuff fiasco, but the same mistakes in a few of the turns in coil will inevitably end the fight and in T9 even if you even make it past the transition that is going to drive people berserk, and in typical roulette fashion it'll just happen to be the one that pops every time.

I'd love to do synced coils again, but I know it'd be a frustrating clown fiesta of an abandon fest that simply just won't be worth the exp.

[Vidu]

Coil isnt on the same difficulty level than Alexander and while some of them might be clearable in DF without to much pain, others are not and you'll see people drop out of T5, 9 and 13 for sure - and I dont know how many would stay for 8, 11 and 12...

There is also another solution if you dont like getting Alexander all the time: Dont do the roulette and pretend SE did one of your logical suggestions which would essentially be to remove the roulette (the moment you remove Alexander its only Omega left, so... you'd need to be at least level 70 to access something called "raid roulette", which would basically be "Omega roulette" at that point). Trust me: you dont want Coil in DF. You really dont.

[JowyAtreides]

My heart says yes please (it'll be nice to see these unsynced again)

My head says no (people will just drop from it because difficulty)

[RyuSaarva]

people would only be able to clear t1-4 if everyone is max item level but then you also sometimes get a full party of new players who only have item level 70 or something and they also have not read what any of their skills do.