Red Mage AoE could use more "oomph" in the next expansion

[Pyitoechito]

In Stormblood, the RDM AoE rotation was extremely bland. Scatter spam into Moulinet spam. While Shadowbringers did expand on the AoE kit with new Ver-spells, it still lacks a satisfying impact (I'll see myself out later).

By comparison, BLM has a very satisfying AoE kit that chains explosion after explosion along with purple darkness explosions, lightning explosions and little ice explosions. While I haven't played enough SMN to speak from experience, exploding poison clouds (to spread dots) along with scathing pillars of light/fire are probably fairly enjoyable.

Red Mage just needs some of that oomph for themselves in their own AoE kit. Their single-target rotation has Verflare/holy and Scorch, so come next expansion some of that burst should come to their AoE kit:

• Increase the potency and gauge cost of Enchanted Moulinet (maybe 25 or 30 black/white mana).
• Add new combo actions to Enchanted Moulinet in the form of Verflood (white mana; shares slot with Veraero II) and Verfreeze (black mana; shares slot with Verthunder II).

The casting motions for Verflood/freeze could easily be copied from Verholy/flare, respectively. Verflood creates a column of water that douses surrounding targets (either falling from the sky or bursting from the ground as a geyser), while Verfreeze is a three-dimensional, razor-sharp ice snowflake (similar to PLD Holy Circle) that quickly forms then explodes into frozen shrapnel.

No longer would Red Mage gauge burn be a basic and bland 1-1-1-1-1, but instead a slightly-less-basic-yet-far-more-explosive 1-2-1-2-1-2 where every other action is a satisfying burst of water or ice magic.

Edit: Also bring back Enhanced Scatter/Impact procs so Acceleration has something to do in trash packs.

[Lodi]

Imo, Verthunder/Aero II should have been Verblizzard/water instead. We had such a good opportunity to widen our element range... :c

And I fully agree with getting an aoe finisher after 1 or 2 E.Moulinets, like Verfreeze/flood (as upgrades to Blizzard and Water). It could also give us mana back, to make mana recovery faster just like Flare/Holy/Scorch does.

RDM's aoe set got a lot better with ShB, and I wish to see it get a bit more love.

[Tlamila]

Oh yes, please. I love RDM for single target but when it gets to AoE it's sooo underwhelming, we really need more.

[Silverquick]

No one is going to argue that the Red Mage AoE rotation is... well bland doesn't even properly describe it...

That said... No other job has an AoE that can dish out a 1000 potency worth of AoE attacks in 7 seconds like the Gauge + Moulinet does. It is HIGHLY effective, even if rather Spartan.

So I honestly don't want to see the Devs "fix" something that isn't broken and end up breaking it and screwing it up. I saw this over and over again with SMN over the years.

So I seriously hesitate to even request anything like that at this point.

Its not broken... so doesn't need fixing... even if its a little tedious to get there.

[Pyitoechito]

That said... No other job has an AoE that can dish out a 1000 potency worth of AoE attacks in 7 seconds like the Gauge + Moulinet does. It is HIGHLY effective, even if rather Spartan.

Um... Goka Mekkyaku for Ninja deals 975 potency per target alone on a 60s cd (750 potency base x1.3 for Kassatsu). They can also Katon twice back-to-back for 1000 total AoE potency, or TCJ Katon + Doton for 1300 total AoE potency. Machinist Hypercharged 5x Auto Crossbow is 900 potency over 8 seconds, and generally happens far more often for Machinist than RDM 5x Moulinet.

But this isn't about potency, really. It's about flavor. NIN Mudras are fun to use and have powerful, striking visuals. While MCH Auto Crossbow spam alone isn't very exciting, it's mixed with Flamethrower and making sure neither overlap with keeping Bioblaster on cooldown. RDM AoE visuals are lacking and the rotation is very basic. The gauge burn is one action (instead of 3 + 2 spell combos for single-target), and it lacks even the proc-based element of the single-target rotation so Acceleration is completely useless.

Actually, that gives me another idea: bring back Enhanced Scatter procs so Acceleration has something to do in trash packs. If RDM AoE had procs for extra jumps of mana generation along with a 2-step gauge burn combo (weaponskill into enhanced spell), I think I would be quite satisfied with their AoE rotation.

[Silverquick]

Yeah I do remember the procs on Impact back when, I did wonder what happened to them.

Also I remember things being reversed back then where you used to cast Scatter/Impact first, then the VerII spells.

But we're still back to that little hitch, where I've seen it over and over that they break something trying to fix it... and I'd rather avoid that.

[Pyitoechito]

Yeah I do remember the procs on Impact back when, I did wonder what happened to them.

Also I remember things being reversed back then where you used to cast Scatter/Impact first, then the VerII spells.

I don't think this was ever the case ever? In Stormblood, the only AoE spell RDM had was Scatter. They spammed Scatter until they had enough mana to use Enchanted Moulinet, or built up a large reserve to use Manaification into Moulinet spam. There was no Veraero II or Verthunder II, only Scatter. Impact was actually a single-target spell and a proc'd upgrade to Jolt II whenever the spell was cast at a 100% proc rate. Cast Jolt II, next Jolt II is an Impact for 30s. In Shadowbringers they decided that Impact should be AoE and a permanent upgrade to Scatter.

I mean Scatter spam in Stormblood wasn't broken either, just mind-numbingly boring and generally not that much fun. So no, RDM AoE rotation isn't broken from a viewpoint of potency, but it does have problems with being a satisfying rotation both mechanically and visually.

[Silverquick]

I don't think this was ever the case ever? In Stormblood, the only AoE spell RDM had was Scatter. They spammed Scatter until they had enough mana to use Enchanted Moulinet, or built up a large reserve to use Manaification into Moulinet spam. There was no Veraero II or Verthunder II, only Scatter. Impact was actually a single-target spell and a proc'd upgrade to Jolt II whenever the spell was cast at a 100% proc rate. Cast Jolt II, next Jolt II is an Impact for 30s. In Shadowbringers they decided that Impact should be AoE and a permanent upgrade to Scatter.

I mean Scatter spam in Stormblood wasn't broken either, just mind-numbingly boring and generally not that much fun. So no, RDM AoE rotation isn't broken from a viewpoint of potency, but it does have problems with being a satisfying rotation both mechanically and visually.

THAT'S right!

Now I remember, when I came back and was playing RDM again I could not figure out why it was so different than I remembered. And I always remembered casting scatter/impact first...

But then again... it still gets back to what I said before about breaking something trying to "fix" it.

[Pyitoechito]

But then again... it still gets back to what I said before about breaking something trying to "fix" it.

There's always going to be some level of risk involved when making changes, but I'd prefer that risk be taken to make RDM AoE actually fun than leave it bland forever.

[Silverquick]

There's always going to be some level of risk involved when making changes, but I'd prefer that risk be taken to make RDM AoE actually fun than leave it bland forever.

I'd rather it be effective.

And I just don't trust SE enough anymore to believe it will be when they make a "change" to anything major.

I would rather keep my boring 1000 potency.... than end up with 800 potency and something that "looks kewl".