Sundering and specific character questions. [Spoilers]

[RicaRuin]

Midgardsomr, his eggs and Omega only arrived at the planet after the sundering, so they qualify as unsundered beings as well.

[JeanneOrnitier]

Omega and Midgardsormr are not sundered because they came to the planet after and it seems (keyword seems, but going by what we know of the cause, this appears to be the case) to be restricted only to the planet.

Which, in retrospect, makes me wonder if Omega's aether-crafting abilities aren't really all that special. It's pretty much the same thing the Ancients did. Are all unsundered beings across the universe able to use summoning that way, and rather than Omega being super powerful, it's more that Hydaelyn-ians are weak?

[LineageRazor]

Omega and Midgardsormr are not sundered because they came to the planet after and it seems (keyword seems, but going by what we know of the cause, this appears to be the case) to be restricted only to the planet.

Which, in retrospect, makes me wonder if Omega's aether-crafting abilities aren't really all that special. It's pretty much the same thing the Ancients did. Are all unsundered beings across the universe able to use summoning that way, and rather than Omega being super powerful, it's more that Hydaelyn-ians are weak?

Yeah, that's my running theory, for now. That immortality and incredible powers of creation are pretty much the universal standard, and that sundered souls are the exception.

I reserve the right to back down from this theory, once we learn more about the Calamity that threatened the Ancients' world. If this Calamity was caused by their very nature as immortal, powerful beings, then presumably other races (including the dragons and whoever created Omega) would run into similar problems. (On the other hand, perhaps they did, or were on the road to doing so...)

[Erendis]

Yeah, that's my running theory, for now. That immortality and incredible powers of creation are pretty much the universal standard, and that sundered souls are the exception.

What if the Twelve were not Ancients, but unsundered aliens instead?

[RicaRuin]

What if the Twelve were not Ancients, but unsundered aliens instead?

I raise you my theory: The Twelve weren't Aliens, but just the Convocation Members befote being sundered. Not couting the fourteenth, and counting two Convocation members as one because Nald'thal is a twin deity.

I mean, I believe they say that the Twelve walked the planet before the First Calamity, which could be around the time of Amaurot. And those coming up with them being gods were the first generation of Sundered who still remembered a little, so maybe they just remembered some powerful figures/leaders and interpreted that to deities.

Alternatively, and purely going by Hades' name, seeing the Convocation members as similar to the Olympians. (Again not counting the Fourteenth and neither Hades, as he isn't one of the Twelve Olympians in greek mythology.)

[Erendis]

I raise you my theory: The Twelve weren't Aliens, but just the Convocation Members befote being sundered. Not couting the fourteenth, and counting two Convocation members as one because Nald'thal is a twin deity.

I mean, I believe they say that the Twelve walked the planet before the First Calamity, which could be around the time of Amaurot. And those coming up with them being gods were the first generation of Sundered who still remembered a little, so maybe they just remembered some powerful figures/leaders and interpreted that to deities.

Convocation members was the common theory on Lore forums, that's why I suggested it was aliens instead.

The first calamity though happened some time after the Amaurot fell considering at first there was a failure with the Thirteenth before they figured out there also needs to be a calamity on the Source.

[LineageRazor]

Convocation members was the common theory on Lore forums, that's why I suggested it was aliens instead.

The first calamity though happened some time after the Amaurot fell considering at first there was a failure with the Thirteenth before they figured out there also needs to be a calamity on the Source.

Yeah, it's a common misconception that the fall of Amaurot was the First Calamity, but it is not. It's more like the Zeroth Calamity. The timeline looks roughly like this:
- The Sound starts making Creation magic go crazy
- The planet is on the verge of destruction (Zeroth Calamity)
- Convocation summons Zodiark at the cost of half of the surviving Ancients
- Zodiark stops the Calamity
- Zodiark fixes the world at the cost of half the remaining Ancients.
- The world is made lush again with new life
- The Convocation proposes that the new life be sacrificed to bring back the previous sacrifices
- The Dissenters dissent, and summon Hydaelyn
- Hydaelyn sunders Zodiark and the world, leaving only three Unsundered Convocation members, who become the original Ascians.
- Emet-Selch, Elidibus, and Lahabrea investigate the new, Sundered worlds to gauge whether they should just turn in the towel and let the new life be their successors.
- They find them wanting, say "Screw that", and start recruiting new Ascians to begin the work of restoring the world
- Igyorhym stirs up trouble on the Thirteenth Shard, but the Rejoining doesn't work. The Thirteenth becomes the Void.
- The Ascians figure out how to have a proper Rejoining, and target the Fifth (I think?) Shard, suffusing it with Wind Aether.
- The First Calamity strikes the Source, and the Shard is successfully Rejoined to it.

The actual timeframes are in question, but it is likely that at least a thousand years passed between the fall of Amaurot and the First Calamity. During most of that time, there were only three Unsundered Convocation members walking the planet, not twelve, thirteen, or fourteen.

This doesn't mean that the Convocation can't be the original Twelve anyway; they could have been legendary figures to the people who existed after the Sundering but before the First Calamity - the First Astral Era, basically - and their reverence survived each Calamity to come up until the present day. Certainly, to the wimpy, one-fourteenth-souled inhabitants, the three Ascians would have been incredibly godlike, and Emet's stories of how things used to be would be like describing an era of gods, with the Twelve being foremost among them.

[Elladie]

I raise you my theory: The Twelve weren't Aliens, but just the Convocation Members befote being sundered. Not couting the fourteenth, and counting two Convocation members as one because Nald'thal is a twin deity.

I mean, I believe they say that the Twelve walked the planet before the First Calamity, which could be around the time of Amaurot. And those coming up with them being gods were the first generation of Sundered who still remembered a little, so maybe they just remembered some powerful figures/leaders and interpreted that to deities.

Alternatively, and purely going by Hades' name, seeing the Convocation members as similar to the Olympians. (Again not counting the Fourteenth and neither Hades, as he isn't one of the Twelve Olympians in greek mythology.)

Not sure why you say Hades isn't an Olympian, he definitely is. He is Zeus' brother along with Poseidon. The twelve Olympians are Zeus, Hades, Poseidon, Hera, Demeter, Hestia, Aphrodite, Ares, Apollo, Athena, Hermes and Artemis

[RenewalXVII]

Not sure why you say Hades isn't an Olympian, he definitely is. He is Zeus' brother along with Poseidon. The twelve Olympians are Zeus, Hades, Poseidon, Hera, Demeter, Hestia, Aphrodite, Ares, Apollo, Athena, Hermes and Artemis

Hades generally isn't counted among the Twelve Olympians, since he made his home in the Underworld, not Olympus. You dropped Hephaestus to include Hades in your list.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

Yeah, that's my running theory, for now. That immortality and incredible powers of creation are pretty much the universal standard, and that sundered souls are the exception.

I reserve the right to back down from this theory, once we learn more about the Calamity that threatened the Ancients' world. If this Calamity was caused by their very nature as immortal, powerful beings, then presumably other races (including the dragons and whoever created Omega) would run into similar problems. (On the other hand, perhaps they did, or were on the road to doing so...)

What if the dragons did have similar problems, and decided to take to the Stars to escape them...