Shelltron and critical attacks.

[VenKitsune]

Are you sure? You should double check that!

Bosses AA do crit. Raid wide aoes and mechnics (such as tank busters, marks etc.) cannot crit, but AAs still do!

Also, I never saw OP mentioned dying to trash mobs because of crit hits!?
They just mentioned that Sheltron is rendered useless when getting auto critted... or worse getting hit by crit mechanic.

Errrr Nope, they don't crit, atleast not unless its a specific mechanic. I'm 99.9% sure on that, but feel free to provide a source saying otherwise.

Nope. This is definitely not the end of the discussion. What is your problem? Getting so up in arms about what exactly? I never said I was dying to dungeon mobs, what I'm saying is that RNG shouldn't affect the effectiveness of my CD. And well, to heck with balancing around only raids, especially when doing so gives birth to obvious, and quite frankly, laughable flaws like this.

If RNG shouldn't be able to dictate your effectiveness then surely, to make it fair, you shouldn't be able to crit your attacks or heals either, then?
And no - If things are balanced around raids, that trickles down to 4 man dungeons and extreme trials....but it doesn't work the other way around.

If tank balance is based around raids and raids can’t crit then this change does not effect balance. So why would you be against a quality of life change that makes sense since it means a damage reduction cooldown would actually reduce damage? And if your answer is why should block be checked before crit? My answer is why shouldn’t it?

Try to envision a scenario where a baseball player is about to hit a ball and it is determined if the ball smacks the player in the face (critical hit) before it is checked if the ball is thrown wide (accuracy/evasion), if he hits the ball with his bat (block) or if the ball bounces off his helmet (parry). The order that FFXIV’s checks happen in is weird, a critical hit should not be checked before it is checked if it even hits or bypasses your defences.

Well no - Checking for crit first is how the game works. If its a crit, it wont miss, and it'll do more damage.

That's simply how the game is coded and it makes sense.

Is damage crit? Yes
Did target block? Yes
Take Crit damage number, reduce block percentage, apply damage.

It should not be Reduce block percentage, take crit number, apply damage. That's not how even basic maths works.

[Reynhart]

That's simply how the game is coded and it makes sense.

Is damage crit? Yes
Did target block? Yes
Take Crit damage number, reduce block percentage, apply damage.

Well, the order is completely arbitrary, so it makes as much sense as any other order.

You could very well check first if the hit connected properly (so, no dodge, no parry, no block), and after, you have a chance to apply critical damage.

Also, in that case, if the hit crits, the game won't check for block, so you won't reduce anything.

[ArianeEwah]

Errrr Nope, they don't crit, atleast not unless its a specific mechanic. I'm 99.9% sure on that, but feel free to provide a source saying otherwise.

Unending Coil of Bahamut - during 5.1 - Nael deus Darnus' AAs on tanks

Bahamuts AAs also critted here, Twintanias AAs didn't, but through own exp I know it can. Just as all bosses in UWU can, and I am 100% sure all pre-ShB dungeon- and raid-bosses can, too.

Truth be told, I am yet to find any ShB source with auto crits. SE may have decided to remove auto crits from (raid) bosses because they removed Awareness as a CD. Strangely enough, at least trash mobs in ShB dungeons still have a chance to crit. Not sure about dungeon bosses.

Nevertheless, even if this just affects trash mobs and/or pre-ShB bosses, it's a QoL change that wouldn't hurt anyone. And it would make Sheltron more reliable.

[Aurelius2625]

How about this, you're wrong. Sheltron is fine. NO tankbusters crit outside of forced crits like the stuff from Diabolos Hollow and Halicarnasus where it's based around that... so then... use something else and plan sheltron for something other than that one thing? It's called planning mitigation, something you need to learn as a tank, just like planning heals on a healer... oh the horror.

Sheltron is amazing, and is on par with two personal CDs since you can stack 100 gauge for it. It's not static like a cooldown like Camo, you can plan the two charges for two different things.

[TheForce]

How about this, you're wrong. Sheltron is fine. NO tankbusters crit outside of forced crits like the stuff from Diabolos Hollow and Halicarnasus where it's based around that... so then... use something else and plan sheltron for something other than that one thing? It's called planning mitigation, something you need to learn as a tank, just like planning heals on a healer... oh the horror.

Sheltron is amazing, and is on par with two personal CDs since you can stack 100 gauge for it. It's not static like a cooldown like Camo, you can plan the two charges for two different things.

Man, I'm getting really tired of the unnecessarily rude attitudes some of you people have. I hope I never run into any of you in game.
"Something you need to learn as a Tank". You can't be serious, I've tanked both Savage and EX Primals (while relevant), please do not talk to me like I don't know how to Tank, how about that. Tankbusters aren't the only damage that you take in this game, please stop acting like it is. Being able to have 2 charges doesn't excuse the fact that critical attacks render the CD useless, it is as if we didn't even use the skill, especially when Paladin is already kind of lacking in the personal mitigation department, heck, Divine Veil still doesn't
even apply to us. That is not okay, and no matter how much you try and justify it will it ever be okay.

[Machka]

Errrr Nope, they don't crit, atleast not unless its a specific mechanic. I'm 99.9% sure on that, but feel free to provide a source saying otherwise.

Raid boss autoattacks absolutely can crit. It's possible not every boss does, but there are definitely some that do.

Source: Used to raid as a tank, and have 100% definitely been critted by autoattacks before.

[Shurrikhan]

That's simply how the game is coded and it makes sense.

Is damage crit? Yes
Did target block? Yes
Take Crit damage number, reduce block percentage, apply damage.

No, it's not, and no it doesn't particularly make sense.

The sequence is

Crit: Yes/No

If yes:

Damage crits. It cannot be dodged, blocked, or parried.

If no:

Dodge: Yes/No

If yes:

All damage is avoided. It cannot be blocked or parried.

If no:

Block: Yes/No

If yes:

Damage is blocked. It cannot be parried.

If no:

Parry: Yes/No

[Breadgehog]

Sheltron's tradeoff is that as the expansion goes on it will get strictly better at blocking most damage than other on-demand cooldowns, because block strength will likely get to the point where it mitigates about 25%. There's not going to be any content that straight out requires you to be able to ward off an autocrit, even shit like Optimized Blade Dance in O12 and Tera Slash in Shin Ex will still be fine, the same way magical tankbusters don't instagib non-DRKs. PLD is allowed to be slightly worse in one aspect of tanking that rarely actually surfaces, especially with how overwhelmingly good it is by almost any other metric.

[Shurrikhan]

Sheltron is amazing, and is on par with two personal CDs since you can stack 100 gauge for it. It's not static like a cooldown like Camo, you can plan the two charges for two different things.

A second charge, which does not increase uptime or mitigation over time, is of equal value to an entire second ability, which not only provides the same flexibility and short-term coverage as the second charge but also increases uptime and mitigation over time?

Sheltron's tradeoff is that as the expansion goes on it will get strictly better at blocking most damage than other on-demand cooldowns, because block strength will likely get to the point where it mitigates about 25%.

And... how is it going to do that when Block Strength is capped at that of the Ronkan shield (20% mitigation, which also happens to waste Block and Parry chance and is nullified by crits)?

[Kabooa]

And... how is it going to do that when Block Strength is capped at that of the Ronkan shield (20% mitigation, which also happens to waste Block and Parry chance and is nullified by crits)?

While it doesn't help the critical bypass, there is also no guarantee that shield strength won't increase - only that it will not vary within a tier itself.