Shelltron and critical attacks.

[TheForce]

Hey guys, so I've recently noticed that Shelltron has no effect on critical attacks. So basically, if we are hit with a crit, it's as if we didn't even use a cool-down. Now, I know that the game decides whether an attack will crit or not before whether or not we block it, but I feel like this system should be ignored if Shelltron is active. So maybe, Awareness (rip) could be fused into Shelltron? That would be pretty cool.

I don't know, just feels like a slap in the face when I see an attack crit me while I have shelltron active and I know that Shelltron did nothing to it.

[ArianeEwah]

Sheltron is already the same as RI at this point, but weaker due to your stated problem.

Awareness was an original PLD/GLA ability, I see no reason to not implement it into Sheltron. Naturally passive block should still be excluded from this change (as if we've ever noticed).

I support this!

[Nedkel]

PLD doesnt need that, it is enough that he is already one of the best OT in the game.
You cant have everything, change sheltron and we will have to nerf intervention.

[ArianeEwah]

PLD doesnt need that, it is enough that he is already one of the best OT in the game.
You cant have everything, change sheltron and we will have to nerf intervention.

PLD best OT? Have you missed ShB?

TBN/HoS/NF all > baseline Intervention, and Cover nerfed useless as mitigation tool outside of cheese tactics.
To buff Intervention, PLD has to use Rampart or Sentinel, and then it's better to just voke and use Sheltron instead.
It has better efficiency for double tankbusters, but there are just a few of them anyway, and even then NF and TBN are probably better.
(WAR burst can heal ~20-25% of OT HP pool + 10% mitigation while healing themselves by ~40-50%, TBN is flat 25% eHP gain.)

PLD is nowhere near 'best OT' since ShB, but closer 'best raid wide mitigation tank'.

[TheForce]

PLD doesnt need that, it is enough that he is already one of the best OT in the game.
You cant have everything, change sheltron and we will have to nerf intervention.

....hm? Idk, if I pop a CD, I expect it to actually do something. If anything, I need Sheltron most for critical hits. We don't want "everything", it just seems kind of silly that our on-demand CD is totally useless at times we need it most, especially when other Tanks' CDs all help mitigate Crit damage.

[VenKitsune]

Tank balance is based around raids. Raids are bosses. Bosses cannot random crit players. If you're dying because a dungeon mob crit you, you have other problems. End of discussion.

[ArianeEwah]

Tank balance is based around raids. Raids are bosses. Bosses cannot random crit players. If you're dying because a dungeon mob crit you, you have other problems. End of discussion.

Are you sure? You should double check that!

Bosses AA do crit. Raid wide aoes and mechnics (such as tank busters, marks etc.) cannot crit, but AAs still do!

Also, I never saw OP mentioned dying to trash mobs because of crit hits!?
They just mentioned that Sheltron is rendered useless when getting auto critted... or worse getting hit by crit mechanic.

[VenKitsune]

Are you sure? You should double check that!

Bosses AA do crit. Raid wide aoes and mechnics (such as tank busters, marks etc.) cannot crit, but AAs still do!

Also, I never saw OP mentioned dying to trash mobs because of crit hits!?
They just mentioned that Sheltron is rendered useless when getting auto critted... or worse getting hit by crit mechanic.

Errrr Nope, they don't crit, atleast not unless its a specific mechanic. I'm 99.9% sure on that, but feel free to provide a source saying otherwise.

Nope. This is definitely not the end of the discussion. What is your problem? Getting so up in arms about what exactly? I never said I was dying to dungeon mobs, what I'm saying is that RNG shouldn't affect the effectiveness of my CD. And well, to heck with balancing around only raids, especially when doing so gives birth to obvious, and quite frankly, laughable flaws like this.

If RNG shouldn't be able to dictate your effectiveness then surely, to make it fair, you shouldn't be able to crit your attacks or heals either, then?
And no - If things are balanced around raids, that trickles down to 4 man dungeons and extreme trials....but it doesn't work the other way around.

If tank balance is based around raids and raids can’t crit then this change does not effect balance. So why would you be against a quality of life change that makes sense since it means a damage reduction cooldown would actually reduce damage? And if your answer is why should block be checked before crit? My answer is why shouldn’t it?

Try to envision a scenario where a baseball player is about to hit a ball and it is determined if the ball smacks the player in the face (critical hit) before it is checked if the ball is thrown wide (accuracy/evasion), if he hits the ball with his bat (block) or if the ball bounces off his helmet (parry). The order that FFXIV’s checks happen in is weird, a critical hit should not be checked before it is checked if it even hits or bypasses your defences.

Well no - Checking for crit first is how the game works. If its a crit, it wont miss, and it'll do more damage.

That's simply how the game is coded and it makes sense.

Is damage crit? Yes
Did target block? Yes
Take Crit damage number, reduce block percentage, apply damage.

It should not be Reduce block percentage, take crit number, apply damage. That's not how even basic maths works.

[Reynhart]

That's simply how the game is coded and it makes sense.

Is damage crit? Yes
Did target block? Yes
Take Crit damage number, reduce block percentage, apply damage.

Well, the order is completely arbitrary, so it makes as much sense as any other order.

You could very well check first if the hit connected properly (so, no dodge, no parry, no block), and after, you have a chance to apply critical damage.

Also, in that case, if the hit crits, the game won't check for block, so you won't reduce anything.

[ArianeEwah]

Errrr Nope, they don't crit, atleast not unless its a specific mechanic. I'm 99.9% sure on that, but feel free to provide a source saying otherwise.

Unending Coil of Bahamut - during 5.1 - Nael deus Darnus' AAs on tanks

Bahamuts AAs also critted here, Twintanias AAs didn't, but through own exp I know it can. Just as all bosses in UWU can, and I am 100% sure all pre-ShB dungeon- and raid-bosses can, too.

Truth be told, I am yet to find any ShB source with auto crits. SE may have decided to remove auto crits from (raid) bosses because they removed Awareness as a CD. Strangely enough, at least trash mobs in ShB dungeons still have a chance to crit. Not sure about dungeon bosses.

Nevertheless, even if this just affects trash mobs and/or pre-ShB bosses, it's a QoL change that wouldn't hurt anyone. And it would make Sheltron more reliable.