Seeds of 7.0 and on?

[fay2]

Rife Spoilers and Wild Speculation ahead.










I see Seeds to a future existential threat greater that Zodiark
been told I should post them here so...


I'm sure durring the duty Amaurot most people where looking down at the planet


its understandable its an epic view

it dose seem to me that not many look up at and take note of this



and those that do rarely see it as something more than pretty space thing?



To me i see it as the red flame depicted in the caves



That red fire is in all the 4 painting featured and we have only been told one very point of the story those cave paintings tell Emet Selch's .



I'd be interested in hearing Elidibus' honest account and if it differs from Emits account.

Emet Selch also mentions that


Who knows as we are exposed to more of the Amaurotians soul we are part/we made of, we may get echo's that say something completely different again.


I also find it telling that they make a point to avoid showing the top part of the 1st cave painting


Over all I see this as an alien threat to the planet that Amaurotians were completely unready for.
Maybe this will have parallels with the events of the dragon star.

[DamianFatale]

I didn't notice they avoided the top part. I'm curious if it can be seen going back through the Raktika dungeon..

[fay2]

I didn't notice they avoided the top part. I'm curious if it can be seen going back through the Raktika dungeon..

^^ yes it can be


looks to me like Amaurot is getting orbital bombarded in it

[KageTokage]

I'm kind of hoping 6.0 resolves both the conflict with Garlemald and the Ascians but at the same time reveals that there's a bigger problem at hand that had only been barely kept in check by Zodiark/Hydaelyn and ends up being unleashed due to Zenos' meddling.

I think it would be a good twist if we actually end up cooperating with the remaining Ascians in a bid to simply to save the world after our little conflict of ideals reaches its end.

[Driven]

On the note of an external threat, It would wrap up nicely in a poetic way if the remaining asians somehow helped the warrior of light by sacrificing themselves thus ending their story arc and having a somewhat redeeming quality to them. They did it once, I think it would be poetic if they did it again.

[fay2]

so the 3 unbroken are/were members of The Convocation of Fourteen

Elidibus - Emissary
Lahabrea - Speaker
Emet-Seich - Chair

Just the sort of group that might make a good envoy to treat with something/somewhere external to the planet? thus meaning they were not there for the sundering, and remained hole.

Emet just before the Amaurot duty mentions we would make for poor stewards of any star.




That would also mean the account given by Emet-Seich of the last painting is not 1st hand experience but something Emet came to after returning, and may not been there for the 3rd painting either.
We can assume safely that he was on the planet during the time the 1st and 2nd paintings depict. even if he glazed over all the information they depict.

I'm kind of hoping 6.0 resolves both the conflict with Garlemald and the Ascians but at the same time reveals that there's a bigger problem at hand that had only been barely kept in check by Zodiark/Hydaelyn and ends up being unleashed due to Zenos' meddling.

Yeah it seems liking to me that Zodiark and Hydaelyn are one in the same or some fashion like that. I mean it took 1/3 of the Amaurotians to make Zodiark another 1/3 to return life to the planet.

So with 1/3 remaining a small fractured group of that 1/3 summoned Hydaelyn and was equal to Zodiark?

if we go back and look at these 3 paintings again

Note the rings over the head of the deities.

Zodiark has 2 "halos", then Zodiark and Hydaelyn have a "halo" each, finally Hydaelyn has 2 "halos" and Zodiark has none.
Also Zodiark has a red aura. Infected with the "Red flame"?

I'd say "Hydaelyn" was an amendment to "Zodiark" after the "Red flame" infected Zodiark like a parasite.

I think it would be a good twist if we actually end up cooperating with the remaining Ascians in a bid to simply to save the world after our little conflict of ideals reaches its end.

On the note of an external threat, It would wrap up nicely in a poetic way if the remaining asians somehow helped the warrior of light by sacrificing themselves thus ending their story arc and having a somewhat redeeming quality to them. They did it once, I think it would be poetic if they did it again.

Indeed it would.

To that effect I would hope on the return of Emet soon as a lesser ascian made by Elidibus with what ever bits of his shattered soul that was left.



Elidibus is really stressed at the moment leaves it open for Emet's recreation to go majorly array much like Hythlodaeus and maybe get an allied version of Emet plus lots of stuff to delve into if that happened.
I'd love to see how Emet would coupe with self awareness of his death and now being little more than one of the tattered souls he holds with contempt.

[ObsidianFire]

We know that when Hydaelyn was summoned, her summoning was very different then Zoidark's summoning in one key area. Hythlodaeus tells us that when Hydaelyn was summoned, it was her own summoners who died to "fuel" her. When Zoidark was summoned, his summoners sacrificed other people to "fuel" him. So Hydaelyn was way, way weaker then Zoidark initially. It's been speculated that part of why Hydaleyn Sundered Zoidark was to make him more equal to her in power so she could deal with him. There's also a good chance that Zoidark was influenced by the people dying to fuel him who might not have known what the Concept behind Zoidark actually was. The people who died to fuel Hydaelyn were the very people who came up with her Concept, so the odds of her Concept getting influence by some other desire is a lot less.

Emet-Selch also says that Hydaelyn and Zodiark fought for a long time over the Planet before Zoidark was Sundered. So I'd say the Ancients did know about both of them at one point.

Amusingly... you can find the halos behind Zoidark and Hydaelyn by themselves in the Acadima Aydenar. They are the same halos that are behind the Zoidark statues. Which suggests Zodiark (or at least the form of him) was something to the Ancients before they summoned a Concept based on him.

[Mornyr]

Another thing is (at least to me), as far as I know we're never actually given a solid reason behind why their Creational magic started going AWOL, and you can't try and tell me they wouldn't have investigated it as much as they could. There's mention of the laws of the world unraveling or whatever, sure, and it's entirely possible that it IS just some kind of 'natural' occurrence, maybe they exhausted some kind of fundamental resource after thousands of years of creating things from pure aether, who knows.

But i'm pretty sure it's been mentioned, or heavily implied, that the issues started basically on the other side of the world to Amaurot, basically in a somewhat localized area and then slowly spread out from there. With Amaurot itself being one of the last to be infected. Seems suspicious to me. If it was something natural, I would expect it to start off or spread more randomly, with cases popping up just about anywhere.
But if it was engineered, then it would make more sense. For one thing, just because the Ancients had to sacrifice so many to effect changes to the star (though they were rather serious/fundamental), doesn't mean something from outside wouldn't have the power to do so by itself. Hell, that's assuming it's even a single entity instead of some kind of collective. It's a big universe after all.
Also, at that point, our star was basically a 'virgin' star, with no will or maybe something very basic, so I assume that would make it easier to make changes to. And the beauty of it is, you wouldn't even need to make any major changes; just affect that one area so their magic starts going crazy and let the Ancients fear and doubt finish the job for you. After all, we know how easily stray thoughts can change the outcome when someone's Creating something. As long as you had the one area where everything was assured to go wrong, the surrounding areas would start wondering if maybe their own magic would start showing similar issues and slowly spread out from there.

As for the Ascians joining forces with us/redeeming themselves, considering that both Emet-Selch and Elidibus have felt the need to 'reevaluate' us, I definitely think there's room for some kind of cooperation or dialogue in the future that doesn't involve us trying to murder each other. And definitely hoping Emet makes a return of some kind regardless, cause that man gave me feels. Not too sure what i'm expecting of Zenos though, I'm kind of wondering if Elidibus is hoping what's left of Zodiark will take him over and gain a physical form or something. You know, that's not a dead rock in space (presumably). Elidibus also mentioned how the flow of history is slipping beyond his grasp or something to that effect (I can grab screenshots later if anyone wants), so almost tempted to think he's just throwing a bunch of different plans around and seeing what sticks haha. Or maybe they're 'tests' for us, similar to Emet making use of the Lightwardens.

[fay2]

We know that when Hydaelyn was summoned, her summoning was very different then Zoidark's summoning in one key area. Hythlodaeus tells us that when Hydaelyn was summoned, it was her own summoners who died to "fuel" her.

To create her yes
not "fuel" her

create and fuel different things

it took 1/3 of the Amaurotians to create Zodiark
it took another 1/3 to fuel Zodiark to return life to the planet.

When Zoidark was summoned, his summoners sacrificed other people to "fuel" him. So Hydaelyn was way, way weaker then Zoidark initially.

that is also specualtion

Hythlodaeus states that creation magic on the scale of giving "the star a will"{aka Zoidark} needed the a huge amount of live force energy. This is why so many Amourtians volunteered themselves in the salvation of the planet.

Amourt society was an open forum in regards to responsible creation. its controlled by "The Bureau of the Architect" approves and regulates concepts also holds public records of concepts. Amaurotians a free to submit concepts and amend standing ones. They didn't herd up 1/3 of the population an sacrifice them to create Zoidark.


Hydaelyn is also the will of the star yet the creation energy was minuscule in comparison if it was just the energy of those that created her also fueled her. by Hythlodaeus statement that isn't possible.



However if Hydealyn was an amendment in some way to Zoidark then there is enough energy for a will to a star.


if the idea is hard to picture think of garuda's plan to feast on titan and ifirt to empower her further.


The difference being Hydealyn wasn't there to feed on {the will of the star}Zoidark. Just change/amend {the will of the star}.

This is would explain why Lahabrea sees Hydealyn as a parasite to Zoidark. Zoidark's concept was Lahabrea's after all.

It's been speculated that part of why Hydaleyn Sundered Zoidark was to make him more equal to her in power so she could deal with him.

That speculation goes contradictory to the order of the cave paintings of cause. if the 3rd an 4th painting where swapped maybe that would throw some credence behind that speculation.

There's also a good chance that Zoidark was influenced by the people dying to fuel him who might not have known what the Concept behind Zoidark actually was. The people who died to fuel Hydaelyn were the very people who came up with her Concept, so the odds of her Concept getting influence by some other desire is a lot less.

Creation concepts are public domain for Amaurotians. The life force energy they gave up was molded by people who made the concept its the thoughts of the creator invoking the magic that need be sound not the molded energy.
I'll point to the aetheric rope quest, were we capture a cubus to power our weak creation magic, i'm pretty sure it had thoughts other than being made into cloak/robe.

However it may be that the energy used to fuel dose effect the end product in some way there are a few cases that could be sighted here.

Emet-Selch also says that Hydaelyn and Zodiark fought for a long time over the Planet before Zoidark was Sundered. So I'd say the Ancients did know about both of them at one point.

I not sure what your getting at with this phrase maybe you need to rephrase it? it counter acts so some degree the specaltion you posed earlier in your post.
Also yes "the ancients" if your referring the Amaurotians as the ancients here and not some other group viewed as also ancients knew about Hydaelyn and Zodiark. It was the Amaurotians created them.

Amusingly... you can find the halos behind Zoidark and Hydaelyn by themselves in the Acadima Aydenar. They are the same halos that are behind the Zoidark statues. Which suggests Zodiark (or at least the form of him) was something to the Ancients before they summoned a Concept based on him.

I assume you mean this?


Amusingly you also find wheels on a cars, but the concept of wheels out dates the concept of cars. The simple concept of wheels are also fundamental to the complex concept of cars.
I'd guess the concept of "halos" are like "the wheel"(to cars) in Zoidark as a complex concept.

Another thing is (at least to me), as far as I know we're never actually given a solid reason behind why their Creational magic started going AWOL, and you can't try and tell me they wouldn't have investigated it as much as they could. There's mention of the laws of the world unraveling or whatever, sure, and it's entirely possible that it IS just some kind of 'natural' occurrence, maybe they exhausted some kind of fundamental resource after thousands of years of creating things from pure aether, who knows.

But i'm pretty sure it's been mentioned, or heavily implied, that the issues started basically on the other side of the world to Amaurot, basically in a somewhat localized area and then slowly spread out from there. With Amaurot itself being one of the last to be infected. Seems suspicious to me. If it was something natural, I would expect it to start off or spread more randomly, with cases popping up just about anywhere.
But if it was engineered, then it would make more sense. For one thing, just because the Ancients had to sacrifice so many to effect changes to the star (though they were rather serious/fundamental), doesn't mean something from outside wouldn't have the power to do so by itself.

Yup "something" happen in the southern hemisphere.
Then creation magic went haywire maybe because fear can bring out quite the imagination ,and creation magic is only limited in scope to your creativity. Creativity is fueled by imagination.

Like a rock dropped in a still pool the ripples spread out and reflecting of the walls until it is a chaotic mess of ripples.
We know a bit about the "ripples" events that came after the "rock" started them but not what "dropped the rock in" to start it all.

Hell, that's assuming it's even a single entity instead of some kind of collective. It's a big universe after all.

Indeed it could be a collective of some kind I referred to it as "Red flame" it need some name to identify it/them. As we have none to date, and because it seems to me that its depicted in the cave paints as the red, which is mostly in the form of flames in the cave paintings.

Also, at that point, our star was basically a 'virgin' star, with no will or maybe something very basic, so I assume that would make it easier to make changes to. And the beauty of it is, you wouldn't even need to make any major changes; just affect that one area so their magic starts going crazy and let the Ancients fear and doubt finish the job for you. After all, we know how easily stray thoughts can change the outcome when someone's Creating something. As long as you had the one area where everything was assured to go wrong, the surrounding areas would start wondering if maybe their own magic would start showing similar issues and slowly spread out from there.

indeed

As for the Ascians joining forces with us/redeeming themselves, considering that both Emet-Selch and Elidibus have felt the need to 'reevaluate' us, I definitely think there's room for some kind of cooperation or dialogue in the future that doesn't involve us trying to murder each other. And definitely hoping Emet makes a return of some kind regardless, cause that man gave me feels. Not too sure what i'm expecting of Zenos though, I'm kind of wondering if Elidibus is hoping what's left of Zodiark will take him over and gain a physical form or something. You know, that's not a dead rock in space (presumably). Elidibus also mentioned how the flow of history is slipping beyond his grasp or something to that effect (I can grab screenshots later if anyone wants), so almost tempted to think he's just throwing a bunch of different plans around and seeing what sticks haha. Or maybe they're 'tests' for us, similar to Emet making use of the Lightwardens.

Elidibus, I think is just throwing everything in on that table he has, as he is the last unbroken. time for last ditch plans.

[Tracewood]

I'm kind of hoping 6.0 resolves both the conflict with Garlemald and the Ascians but at the same time reveals that there's a bigger problem at hand that had only been barely kept in check by Zodiark/Hydaelyn and ends up being unleashed due to Zenos' meddling.

I think it would be a good twist if we actually end up cooperating with the remaining Ascians in a bid to simply to save the world after our little conflict of ideals reaches its end.

It's possible, Elidibus or Emet(if current speculation at the 5.1 zinger is anything to go by) might have a change of heart if the conditions are met (Zodiark betrayal, Zodiarks death, Hydaelyn betrayal possible, enemy of my enemy). I think Golbez was like this in FF4 but it's been age since I've played so I don't remember the story well.