AST Minor Arcana need to be changed back!

[Billythepancake]

If the saving grace of the old system was that you only really had one choice (Expand and, only a bit less obligatory, Balance)... is that not at least as flawed a system?

Take any way of balancing the old system so it wasn't just Expanded-Balance/Arrow/Spear or bust and you have the same exact problem.

And spare the discussion this "especially on controller" misrepresentation. M&KB is scarcely if at all affected. It is quite purely a controller problem.

It is not, however, a controller problem unique to AST cards. Literally any other need to rapidly target an ally other than your target or target, single focus target, or an ally immediately above or below your last on the party list runs into this same issue on controllers. When my healers in a 24-man raid have both gotten themselves killed by standing in a one-shot mechanic and suddenly my party members and I are getting chain-oGCD-healed (tetra-bene-[gap]-Asylum in rapid fire, each onto the appropriate targets) to keep us over HP margins, I can be almost absolutely certain that supporting alliance healer is using a mouse and keyboard.

XIV controller support is not good, let alone on par with M&KB. It's just been marginally acceptable because so much of healing has been purposely held back into predictable intervals on predictable targets in order to keep controller-users from noticing its otherwise glaring issues. And given how much could be done to improve controller usage, our attention should be on that, rather than just maintaining, be it by fight design or job mechanics, low demands of our controls as to obfuscate the difference.

Even if you chose to single card in the old system it was not as cumbersome as this one. There 2 biggest offenders are sleeve draw and the seals. In the old system if you chose to single target, it was only once every thirty seconds, and you had time to figure out who to give it to. Because of the seal system, and because of sleeve draw, if you want to get divination out on time you have to constantly swap targets. Even on keyboard and mouse I hate it because it almost feels like mouse over is required and macros in this game are awful.

[LariaKirin]

Even if you chose to single card in the old system it was not as cumbersome as this one. There 2 biggest offenders are sleeve draw and the seals. In the old system if you chose to single target, it was only once every thirty seconds, and you had time to figure out who to give it to. Because of the seal system, and because of sleeve draw, if you want to get divination out on time you have to constantly swap targets. Even on keyboard and mouse I hate it because it almost feels like mouse over is required and macros in this game are awful.

No, you did not have time to figure out who to give it to. Every second you spent with a card in hand was a second delaying your next draw.

[Billythepancake]

No, you did not have time to figure out who to give it to. Every second you spent with a card in hand was a second delaying your next draw.

Poorly worded. Forgive me, but you did have a mechanic literally meant to hold cards. Sure, I'll give the new system this, that as soon as you draw it goes on CD, that is nice, but the old system,say you had balance but you wanted to enhance, put it to the side, or you felt you would need whatever card later, or you just needed a second to figure who to give what, put it to the side. Sure you can do that with this system, but if you do it during opener or some other inopportune time, you risk delaying divination.

[LariaKirin]

Poorly worded. Forgive me, but you did have a mechanic literally meant to hold cards. Sure, I'll give the new system this, that as soon as you draw it goes on CD, that is nice, but the old system,say you had balance but you wanted to enhance, put it to the side, or you felt you would need whatever card later, or you just needed a second to figure who to give what, put it to the side. Sure you can do that with this system, but if you do it during opener or some other inopportune time, you risk delaying divination.

Yes, but that method of holding the card meant that your only option was to play it (and use your Royal Road).

But to be fair, this is mostly because we're talking in the context of how it was back then vs how it is now. Button bloat was the only reason you couldn't have Draw/Play on separate buttons back then and eliminate the problem of having to use the card immediately.

Similarly, you now have to use the cards immediately because of one button: Sleeve Draw.

However, my opinion is that this is predominantly a controller problem and I agree with Shurrikhan on this. As a bonus, improving controller support to solve this problem is not only QoL for this specific problem, but across the board.

[Wayfinder3]

Yes, but that method of holding the card meant that your only option was to play it (and use your Royal Road).

But to be fair, this is mostly because we're talking in the context of how it was back then vs how it is now. Button bloat was the only reason you couldn't have Draw/Play on separate buttons back then and eliminate the problem of having to use the card immediately.

Similarly, you now have to use the cards immediately because of one button: Sleeve Draw.

However, my opinion is that this is predominantly a controller problem and I agree with Shurrikhan on this. As a bonus, improving controller support to solve this problem is not only QoL for this specific problem, but across the board.

Alright, but how do you do it. How do you improve the controller problem specifically that comes from needing to target. do controllers get a pass on targeting party members, or does the controller automatically just knows your target and applies the card. im generally curious why your solution is rocket science when the issue is to simply reduce the amount targeting abilities the stems from the card system. Personally, idm how the old system worked but if SE does, then create a system where the cards provide defense buffs to get seals, then use the seals for Divination. return Minor Arcana to lord of crowns 300 potency and be done with it.

Bole/Balance Reduce damage take by 5%
Ewer/Sprie Restore MP
Arrow/Spear Increase effectiveness Healing abilities. get all 3 and you get Divination.
then use cards you don't need for Lord of crowns (remove Lady)

it's simplistic but considering the dps rotation is literally spamming a nuke and a dot, they can add complexity there while keeping functionality, and not falling back on balance > all

[Shurrikhan]

Alright, but how do you do it. How do you improve the controller problem specifically that comes from needing to target.

Okay, let's take just a simple handful of features as needed to go a further step beyond barebone imitation of a keyboard alone (because, that really is all XIV controller support amounts to in regards to targeting units -- the keyboard, with no mouse; only setting ground-targets does anything like emulating a mouse, at very poorly at best).

Target scan: Queue the skill, then tilt your stick towards any applicable target to snap between them.

Snapping may be weighted for ease, effectively as if they had a larger clickable hitbox size or more of the area between them and another applicable target will snap to them instead of being perfectly 50-50. Heals, for instance, would give weight based on %HP, lingering damage, and whether the ally is still being attacked. In the current system, Ranged allies would be weighted for Bole, Spire, and Ewer over Melee allies.

Smart-start: When a skill is queued, it will default its soft-target to a (most) applicable target.

Same idea, but only affecting the first tab position. So, when you hit Sleeve Draw and get three Ranged Cards in a row, it would simply default its tab position on queue to the

Smart-cycle:

Same idea, but now you cycle through relevant targets before going over to increasingly less relevant targets, regardless of their left-right position or given weight over/atop left-right position. Usually attached as a filter for quick swapping or applied only to certain skills. In this case, you'd cycle Bole/Ewer/Spire through all Ranged targets before moving over to Melee targets.

Habitual-start:

Start position prefers, where a relevant target, whoever you applied the card to last time. If you gave your Ranged Card to the BLM last time, it will default to the BLM this time so long as s/he is not already affected by a Card.

For Everyone: Targeting Schema

Whenever you add an action to a hotbar which can be cast on more options than just oneself (so, everything but Sprint, self-buff CDs, Potion, etc.), you can select a trickle-down series of targets for the skill. Whenever an option is not available or applicable, the next is used; so on and so forth. For instance, I might have Exalted Dignity apply Scan Target (weighted) > Current Target > Target of Target > Focus Target > Target of Focus Target > Self. Each time any of those options are used (I don't move my stick to induce Scan), not wounded, not in range, or not an ally, they are skipped and the next is attempted. This all happens instantaneously, just as it would with a macro, but does not skip ahead to self-casting when lacking an applicable target, and does not prevent you from queuing the skill.

What does this mean? In short, you rarely have to aim your skills as a healer. Just leave your target on the tank and your offensive skills can just target-of-target over to something applicable. On a tank swap, hit your ToT key twice or your tab list once while on Ally Filter or go down one on Party List and you're all set again -- no need to target back and forth, freeing you up for actions that actually would require some finesse.

For Everyone: Temporary Focus

This is where we start doing more than just emulating mouse support (Scan) or making up for the lack of it (Smart-). Let's stick with the Ranged Card example. You Draw it, and you see it on your Job Gauge. But now, you can hit your temporary Focus key, hit Play or Minor Arcana, and then tab target just that action over to whomever you want, and then hit it again to release. Hit the Temporary Focus key again to toggle back and forth between your main targeting procedures, or hold it for a second to purge the function. In this way you can still cast as normal on your main target while manipulating whom a future action will affect. The same can be done for, say, Essential Dignity; as it starts coming off CD, you hit your Temporary Focus button and hit the soon-to-be-refreshed Essential Dignity, and then tab it over to whom you want to cast it on when it comes off CD as you continue casting on your main target or target of target, or so forth. If Savage dungeons were ever a thing, I'd probably use this all the time for Head Graze.