Please Make Healing + DPSing More Engaging

[Rydia_Misuto]

I've been playing since 2.1.

In that time, I have watched every single DPS job grow slowly more complex and intricate - and more fun for it.

I watched every tank become more complex and intricate until Shadowbringers, when tanking on the whole was severely simplified.

Healers have gained more tools in our kit over time, this is true, but having played all three jobs now on various alts, I can confirm what I suspected at launch is true: Healers are far too same-y now. Even moreso than tanks. Every single healer has a simple-to-manage mechanic and the same simplistic core healing spells. The only differences are animations, and minor specifics.

Healer DPSing is the most egregious failure at this time. Having played Dancer, I had the realization that Dancer could very easily have just been a healer class. Keep the core mechanics, adjust potencies and cooldowns for OGCDs, add in fundamental required spells, add some synergy and it's suddenly a SUPER fun healer with actual engaging mechanics.

Pressing Dia and Glare is incredibly boring and unfulfilling. Every melee DPS had their AOE expanded beyond one button, as did every tank. Please give healers more to do. I'm already keeping my party healed well enough and no matter how much damage I do it still feels boring to hit the same one button every time through DPSing. I desperately want more interactivity. White Mage at 80 has less going on DPS-wise than any DPS /class/ has. Not jobs - /class/. The fact Scholar has DPS tools taken away from them that Arcanist had feels incredibly irritating.

It is being told: You chose to heal? Then be bored when your team isn't dying.

Tank queues have never been slower since 3.0 launch, and healers have never in my experience been in such high demand. It is not just because DPSes are getting more fun over time, but it's because Healers are actively getting more boring.

Healing should either be more challenging, or DPSing should be more engaging. Or, preferably, both. The only reason to keep healing simple is to draw new players into it, but the queue times and the people jumping ship make it clear this is backfiring. Nobody wants to stick with healing when it's so acutely boring all the way up the chain.

Also, Cure I/Physick/Benefic I are completely superfluous and could easily be removed because they serve practically no valuable purpose.

[Billythepancake]

The fact that healers are the only role with a 25 page thread talking about how ShB is the expansion that made them quit the job, I feel like there really says something.

[YusiKha]

Healing should either be more challenging, or DPSing should be more engaging. Or, preferably, both. The only reason to keep healing simple is to draw new players into it, but the queue times and the people jumping ship make it clear this is backfiring. Nobody wants to stick with healing when it's so acutely boring all the way up the chain.

Healing can't be made drastically more difficult (like some people on the forum are crying for) because of server tick length, console controls for quick ally acquisition, and GCD length. Also we're just swapping out boring Broil/Malefic/Glare spam for boring Cure/Medica spam (the only difference being mana management).
Adding more damaging spells/skills is the best way to go about making things interesting, especially because people keep forgetting that solo and overworld activities exist.

Also, Cure I/Physick/Benefic I are completely superfluous and could easily be removed because they serve practically no valuable purpose.

Eh, their place is 'mana efficient heal', but there is no reason that Cure2/ETacAdlo/Benefic2 can't just take over that role.

[HyperiusUltima]

I’ve played all the Healers and see your take on this; however, we must consider complexity vs. Player skill, lest we repeat how things were in Heavensward(skill bloat, staring at buff bars/timers). If you want to add complexity, it needs to be accessible as well as have a purpose in the kit.

Generally, AST is an example of that complexity currently. It’s difficult to play when Sleeve Draw is overflowing your oGCDs and in a raid setting you’re having to sometimes double-weave them to get them off.

If anything, it’s WHM, SCH, then AST in this order of how complex they are with WHM/SCH being more flexible due to how accessible their oGCDs and heals are. If you want to appeal to the playerbase with Healers, you’ll want to make it more engaging by adjusting what we already have in some way or form to make it fun for the player.

[BloodRubyXII]

What happened to Scholar hurts my soul.

[QooEr]

i feel you. every expansion healing gets more dumbed down.
heavensward was the most fun ive ever had with healing personally. cleric stance dancing actually made the difference between skillfull and unskillful healer play, and you had to learn the fights well to know when you could go into cleric safely, not to mention the small decision making for stuff like assize (do i want to heal or dps with this right now?).
then stormblood came and stance dancing was dead, but at least the jobs were nuanced and complex (except whm).

then shadowbringers came and all the healers play the damn same, with basically no decision making at all beyond "should i use this healing ogcd or this one?". id honestly be happy with our dps kit if we had cleric stance dancing back at this point

[Saefinn]

Oddly, despite bloat, ARR and HW were my favourite iterations of healers. I liked the variety and complexity. But if I need to compromise, then yes, AST is a good example of complexity needed for current content, though I think the reward still needs to be greater for AST.

But if accessibility is a concern. Then I think they have a few options:
Tiered difficulties. They kinda had this already. WHM was the healiest healer and most straight forward to learn. SCH required more work and when AST came out, it was a bit more complex than that.

Stances. They already had this for SCH (in a sense) and AST. They could have evolved on the principle.

Eos was always the healiest faerie, and good for people learning the job and good for raid progression where people are taking more damage. Selene was used more by people who were more experienced out of the role who didn't need Eos' extra heals and got to boost the speed of people's attacks instead, giving a party-wide benefit. Not to say experienced players didn't use Eos too, because I did when the healing was more intense. But that worked for me, because then I've got more complexity by choosing to make the most use I can out of both faeries.

And with AST, Noct is harder than Diurnal, though I hear they're trying to change that, but I think maybe keep it instead and offer a raid benefit for using Noct over Diurnal - such as a boost in card potency or longer buffs.

Then I guess bring back Cleric Stance for WHM and rejig it to have a similar kind of principle. Though ideally, give WHM something else (they still need a utility skill) and give everybody Cleric Stance, because I still miss Cleric Stance. It was fun to weave.

People who're new or learning may not have to worry too much about DPS, I generally advise them to do that if they're confident enough to do so. Learn to heal first. For the majority of content, I'd argue it's not an issue, as it'd only affect how quickly you kill stuff. But the same could be said for DPS and tanks too, how skilled they are affects the rate stuff dies. So there's any complexity added by DPS out of the way.

But I feel it is an option to just have a separation of concerns. Rather than trying to tailor to those who want simplicity or accessibility or those who want complexity and tougher healing. Accommodate both by putting them behind stances with a benefit to using either.


But as it stands. My SCH is not actually that well geared, but I think about 45% of what I do in Expert Roulette is casting Broil or Art of War. That's just dull. It didn't used to be like that.

[kobe-sabi]

SE had one job to do, make WHM intresting to play, but they went the opposite way by taking away what made SCH and AST fun to play. AST cards were just fine you cant stack cards nor shields and with the lost of TP and not wanting the AST to keep EWER mp regen they had only 2 cards to change. SCH was fine with it DPS kit and Shields the only thing needed was buffs to Selene, it was only the boring WHM lilies mechanic needed changing. Healing across the board is fine, with the exception of AST Nocturnal Sect, SE pointed this out on how Nocturnal needs alittle help.

SE wanted healers to heal because people bullied other for not dpsing as an healer, so since the majority of those healers complained, SE was forced to take away some DPS tools along with Protect while not increasing healing potency's. combine this with buffing enemies auto made healing from 71 to 80 challenging, especially if you have a non dodge tank, a dps only tank or i use all CDs at one time tank. In their eyes healing is challenging but to a veteran healing is boring so they want more to do, SE cant raise the ceiling so SE just need to add back certain tools to each healer to make DPSing as a healer fun, and in return the people should leave the healers who want to heal alone. if it was up to me i would have ROLE ACTIONS that really matter, either you want contribute to the party by your DPS boost or Debuffs on enemies including bosses, but you cant have them both. let healers use status effects, DPS should not have these they should just kill and have rotations so engaging that they get lost in their job

[Lodi]

I'd love to have something simple that makes me press something else than 1 all day. It doesn't even have to be complex, it could be something like...

WHM - Proc system similar to DNC/RDM
Example: Spell 1 has a 50% chance to unlock Spell 2, which has a 50% chance to unlock Spell 3. For extra fun, Spell 2 and 3 could have a small aoe effect on top of their single target damage.

SCH - Multiple dots with different total potencies, cast times and durations, one of them being an aoe, and a Thundercloud-like passive
Ex: Single target 18 and 30s dots + aoe 24s dot. On each tick, each dot has a 5% chance to proc SCH!Thundercloud, allowing the player to instantly cast the dot that procced with increased base damage and without overwriting the original dot.

AST - Spells and dot procs have a chance to slightly shorten Draw timer
Ex: Each GCD cast and Combust proc have a 10% chance to reduce Draw CD by 5s.


Bam, all healers have a different offensive gameplay, and without even creating new assets! WHM could use Stone 3, 4 and Glare; and SCH could use Bio I, II, Biolysis or Miasma. All it would require is a few passives here and there.

Hell, those changes could even make for different gameplay as we level up!
WHM could start with Stone, add Stone 2 procs later on, upgrade them to 3 and 4 during the 50-70 levels, and then add Glare at level 72.
SCH could begin with one dot, get the aoe dot at 30-ish, obtain the Thundercloud passive at 50, a third dot between 50 and 70, and then Biolysis and increased proc chances at level 72.
AST could have increased proc chance at every Malefic/Combust upgrade, thus using more and more cards as it levels up.

I'd immediately level every healer to 80 if we had such mechanics.

Oh, and before anybody tells me I'm just copying other classes, yes, yes I am. Because I'd much rather see healers get their own version of interesting dps mechanics than to get a simpler rotation than a lvl 2 BLM. The latter is what we currently have.

[Gemina]

Healers have gained more tools in our kit over time, this is true, but having played all three jobs now on various alts, I can confirm what I suspected at launch is true: Healers are far too same-y now. Even moreso than tanks. Every single healer has a simple-to-manage mechanic and the same simplistic core healing spells. The only differences are animations, and minor specifics.

I play all three healers too, and it would seem that some are missing the point entirely with what is wrong with them. Gripes like this one are not only miniscule, but debatable. Healers have always healed the same way. All of them have a modest set of both gcd and ogcd heals to get the job done. The true difference with the methods used with healing is HoT, shields, and direct healing through gcds.

The latter of those three is currently frowned upon mainly because gcds used on anything other than damage is considered a loss. GCDs are used on HoTs and shields as well, but they bring the added benefit of increasing DPS windows for the healer. OGCDs can also be considered a method of healing, and quite honestly is the current method used by optimizing healers. However, ogcd heals by themselves is a big part of what's wrong with healing. You can basically strike out the three previous methods. They are ALL sub-optimal. As is Noct AST. Another problem.

To say that the three healers play the same way is erroneous. Their DPS kits have been homogenized, but each has a core mechanic the other healer does not. Whether or not you enjoy these individual mechanics is not really relevant. What matters is that WHM and SCH isn't spreading dmg buffs and working towards Divination. AST and SCH are not watching Lilies to hit mobs with Misery. WHM and AST are not primary shielders, and do not manage a fairy. While a lot of that management has gone away. Proper placement and utilization of Lilies abilities are important to optimizing the SCH kit - as it always has been.

Healer DPSing is the most egregious failure at this time. Having played Dancer, I had the realization that Dancer could very easily have just been a healer class. Keep the core mechanics, adjust potencies and cooldowns for OGCDs, add in fundamental required spells, add some synergy and it's suddenly a SUPER fun healer with actual engaging mechanics.

Pressing Dia and Glare is incredibly boring and unfulfilling. Every melee DPS had their AOE expanded beyond one button, as did every tank. Please give healers more to do. I'm already keeping my party healed well enough and no matter how much damage I do it still feels boring to hit the same one button every time through DPSing. I desperately want more interactivity. White Mage at 80 has less going on DPS-wise than any DPS /class/ has. Not jobs - /class/. The fact Scholar has DPS tools taken away from them that Arcanist had feels incredibly irritating.

Again, to focus on the DPS kits of our healers is to miss the mark with what's wrong with healing entirely. No matter how we do it, DPSing during combat is filler during downtime. I hate to say it, but if you want a more complex DPS rotation then play a DPS job. The glairing issue is the downtime. If healers are DPSing the majority of an encounter due to their design, predictability, lack of threat etc. this is a HUGE problem; especially if SE wants to go the direction of healers being more like healers.

If the game is truly experiencing a shortage of healers in endgame, it only makes my own predictions true. I said with this expansion we would learn who our true healers are, and who are the DPS minded dressed in healer gowns. This doesn't mean that healers still queueing up don't have issues with healing. They do, but they also acknowledge the lack of healing requirements and SEs reluctance to increase them. Take away your ogcds, and healing immediately becomes more interesting - assuming you actually like to heal and not just toss them out like free candy between gcds used on DPSing.

Healing should either be more challenging, or DPSing should be more engaging. Or, preferably, both. The only reason to keep healing simple is to draw new players into it, but the queue times and the people jumping ship make it clear this is backfiring. Nobody wants to stick with healing when it's so acutely boring all the way up the chain.

I will definitely agree with you here. However, going back to HW and SB, the only time I ever felt engaged as a healer is when I actually had to heal. This is why I spent the majority of my time doing EX trials and 24-man via the duty finder. While the mechanics were predictable, who would and who would not get hit by them never was. OGCD heals were never enough to get through those things, and I loved every minute of it.