FF 5.X Alternative Raid Buff Alignment and Openers

[HyoMinPark]

That also is not true... a boss mob can have a random choice of which of its attacks to use. It could be a tank buster, it could be a gaze attack it could be something else. Either way all of those will disrupt your timing which in turn causes you to alter your rotation to something else.

Please name a boss that randomizes its attacks in this fashion.

If you get tethered your rotation is screwed depending on the type of tether. If its the one where you have to turn around to stop the thing tethered to you from following you or burn the add attached to you, you're going to have to totally change up what you were going to do next, you can't face the boss mob anymore and now you have to burn down the thing attached to you. If its the type of tether where you have to run in the opposite direction of the person your tethered to to break it... you're not going to be able to complete what it is you were trying to do. If its the positive/negative, or positive positive tether, your rotation is going to be disrupted when you get sent flying in one direction or the other.

+/- tethers may interrupt your rotation, but it doesn’t change the rotation. If you have to disengage for a -/- or +/+ repelling tether, you simply lose GCDs. You don’t suddenly alter what you’re doing.

[Silverquick]

+/- tethers may interrupt your rotation, but it doesn’t change the rotation. If you have to disengage for a -/- or +/+ repelling tether, you simply lose GCDs. You don’t suddenly alter what you’re doing.

Well if you lose a GCD its going to change your rotation isn't it?

[HyoMinPark]

Well if you lose a GCD its going to change your rotation isn't it?

No, it won’t. Combos last for up to 15 seconds now before they break. If, for example, a DRG has to disengage for a GCD after using Disembowel, their next skill when they re-engage will still be Chaos Thrust. You won’t deviate from that. Ever.

I’m still waiting for you to name a boss that may do a tankbuster or may do a gaze attack instead.

[Silverquick]

No, it won’t. Combos last for up to 15 seconds now before they break. If, for example, a DRG has to disengage for a GCD after using Disembowel, their next skill when they re-engage will still be Chaos Thrust. You won’t deviate from that. Ever.

I’m still waiting for you to name a boss that may do a tankbuster or may do a gaze attack instead.

That's DRG, but take Summoner for example, if you had to blow a GCD on something it may not be ready anymore for your standard rotation so you'll have to skip it or do something in a different order than intended.

I thought you were being facetious when you kept asking me about naming a boss... but you're actually serious aren't you?

If you are actually asking about Bosses randomizing their attacks, hell just Brawler in Alex is a good example. The one where he holds up his arms depending on the attack he's going to do. Its never the same one twice but its always random. There's a TON of them. Why are you even asking that?

[HyoMinPark]

That's DRG, but take Summoner for example, if you had to blow a GCD on something it may not be ready anymore for your standard rotation so you'll have to skip it or do something in a different order than intended.

What GCD would you be blowing?

I thought you were being facetious when you kept asking me about naming a boss... but you're actually serious aren't you?

When I ask questions, I tend to expect answers. The question wasn’t rhetorical.

If you are actually asking about Bosses randomizing their attacks, hell just Brawler in Alex is a good example. The one where he holds up his arms depending on the attack he's going to do. Its never the same one twice but its always random. There's a TON of them. Why are you even asking that?

So you’re quoting one boss that either does single or double beam? The attack my be random (barely), but the time stamp for it is still relatively the same so you will always know when it’s happening. And you will always be prepared for it because its position in a fight doesn’t change.

Your argument has been that bosses aren’t scripted. But there are multitudes of evidence to the contrary. So why are you even saying they aren’t scripted when you can literally Google Search “[Boss] Timeline” and get graphics with time stamps posted on it.

[Silverquick]

So you’re quoting one boss that either does single or double beam? The attack my be random (barely), but the time stamp for it is still relatively the same so you will always know when it’s happening. And you will always be prepared for it because its position in a fight doesn’t change.

Oh my god really?
You're seriously going to get that petty? Are you just looking for something to argue about?

[ReiMakoto]

Oh my god really?
You're seriously going to get that petty? Are you just looking for something to argue about?

Im not sure why youre calling this petty, youre making outlandish claims about boss design which are being shown not to be true. As for your smn example earlier, these are all things you can adjust your rotation around ie saving a ruin 4 or egi assault, minor adjustment and youre still doing a rotation. To go back even further to your hw dwt example, yes it was bad to cut your dwt short for deathflare, not just because of the 10% up from dwt, but the 10% up from contagion, and also raging strikes every 3 mins, and if you know when the boss is going away then you could very comfortably get in all the ruin 3s under all these buffs, far better than early deathflare just in case it randomly jumps (which bosses dont do)

[HyoMinPark]

Oh my god really?
You're seriously going to get that petty? Are you just looking for something to argue about?

No, I’m simply proving your initial argument wrong, which was that fights aren’t scripted and your rotation is a fight-by-fight rotation (i.e., changes with the fight) because bosses do things in random order. A few bosses have “random” mechanics, but they always occur in such a way that the way you perform your rotation isn’t changed. Let me give you a more in-depth answer now that I’m not half-asleep and distracted.

Fights in this game are highly scripted: you will always know when and where things are happening, and there’s tons of evidence to back this up. It’s actually been a community complaint that one can go “tankbuster is 20 seconds into the fight, first raid wide is at 30—I can use my immunity at 20 seconds and the SCH can just Indom after the raid wide every single time”. Again, I invite you to go look up fight timelines for any Savage, Extreme, or Ultimate. People have been posting images with mechanics plus time stamps on them since Deltascape. Like this one.

Any mechanical randomness tends to be 1 out of 2 different kinds of mechanics (E4S Massive Landslide first versus ATV mode first); but you’re still missing the key point here: your rotation does not change despite this. It doesn’t matter which one Titan does first: my rotation on DNC still flows the same: Standard Finish is still used every 30 seconds; Technical Finish/Devilment every 120 seconds, Shield Samba is still used during Crumbling Down because that’s where my healers wanted it; etc.. The “randomness” does not affect this. And the busters will always be at the same point in the fight. He won’t randomly not do them.

Even a fight like Brawler (your example) or any of the A6S robots will still do their mechanics at the same point in a fight even if it’s Single Beam/Drill versus Double Beam/Drill. That won’t change anything rotation-wise except maybe tank and healer cooldown usage for the buster versus the stack—he’ll always do the one he didn’t do first later, and it will always be at the same time stamp. Here’s a Death & Taxes guide for A6S—if you notice, each phase is broken down with exact time stamps of when the mechanics occur. It never changes despite Brawler’s Attachment randomness. Which was my entire point.

Your base rotation for any job doesn’t drastically change on a fight-by-fight basis. There are niches where you may do something different (e.g., my example with DNC AOEing during Phase 1 of TEA because it’s a gain over single-target), but it will always generally be the same. The most that tends to change is where/when mitigation is used.

Is that explained better?

If you don’t like having your arguments contested, don’t post on a public forum.

I also did not say that... I said this...
"No they actually won't (be consistent/predictable), because damage is not constant, so the Boss mob getting to that transition phase is not constant, either with your timing nor your CDs. It COULD turn out that way... but it also might not."

This is also incorrect with regards to any kind of current content. Bosses now don’t need certain HP thresholds to be reached in order to phase—they phase based on a time-stamp. It won’t matter if you get Titan to 75% or if he’s still at 85% by the time Titan Maximum comes out. At roughly ~3:43, the boss will phase into Titan Maximum irregardless of his HP value. Same for Orogenesis at ~9:49. This has been the case since at the very least SB, where the developers stopped making fights to phase based on HP %. Probably because of the amount of salt that revolved around Zurvan EX back in HW—all you needed to do was push him past 80% to skip the first Soar, which only required one to do a standard opener. When people failed to do something so simple, salt ensued and the infamous “Skip Soar or Disband” came to be.

[SaberMaxwell]

That's DRG, but take Summoner for example, if you had to blow a GCD on something it may not be ready anymore for your standard rotation so you'll have to skip it or do something in a different order than intended.

Do you understand how Summoner works? Casters don't even have combos and yes, losing a cast is bad, but you also hilariously picked one of the best mobile casters as your example, the Summoner who has instant casts for almost every situation?

In either case, you note down when the mechanic that interrupted you happened. You plan for it so the next time around you sacrifice as little as possible (read: in most cases, nothing) to simultaneously complete the mechanic and not lose a cast. That's how casters tend to optimize, all three of them (six, counting healers).

If you are actually asking about Bosses randomizing their attacks, hell just Brawler in Alex is a good example. The one where he holds up his arms depending on the attack he's going to do. Its never the same one twice but its always random. There's a TON of them. Why are you even asking that?

The timestamp of him performing the mechanic, however, is the same. You know that Mechanic X, Y, or Z is coming, and you have your plans for how to deal with them in your head. The party is generally going to be in a place where they can easily get in position for double beam and bait for double drill. Melees all have gap closers for the eventuality of single drill. Mechanic is called, people react, and in interacting with the mechanic they maintain their rotation to the best of their ability.

Their ability to maintain said rotation generally results in a much better damage per second amount, as well. Yes, flexibility is good, that's not in question: your line in the sand that fights aren't scripted to a hilariously exact degree, however, is not a strong position to hold considering how this game is played.

[Silverquick]

Do you understand how Summoner works? Casters don't even have combos and yes, losing a cast is bad, but you also hilariously picked one of the best mobile casters as your example, the Summoner who has instant casts for almost every situation?
.

Obviously I do.
And where in the hell did you get the idea I was talking about "combos"? I do not recall ever bring up Casters doing "combos". I do believe it was about "rotation" and having to change your rotation... and directly stated so.

And I do believe we were talking about losing a GCD and it changing your pre-planned rotation... not "The Summoner isn't mobile".

Im not sure why youre calling this petty, youre making outlandish claims about boss design which are being shown not to be true. As for your smn example earlier, these are all things you can adjust your rotation around ie saving a ruin 4 or egi assault, minor adjustment and youre still doing a rotation. To go back even further to your hw dwt example, yes it was bad to cut your dwt short for deathflare, not just because of the 10% up from dwt, but the 10% up from contagion, and also raging strikes every 3 mins, and if you know when the boss is going away then you could very comfortably get in all the ruin 3s under all these buffs, far better than early deathflare just in case it randomly jumps (which bosses dont do)

What "outlandish" claims are you talking about?
I stated boss mobs will randomly use techniques, and gave an example and the response I got was "but but but that doesn't count and stuff"
Either way none of it has anything do with what I said.

As for your smn example earlier, these are all things you can adjust your rotation around ie saving a ruin 4 or egi assault, minor adjustment and youre still doing a rotation. To go back even further to your hw dwt example, yes it was bad to cut your dwt short for deathflare, not just because of the 10% up from dwt, but the 10% up from contagion, and also raging strikes every 3 mins, and if you know when the boss is going away then you could very comfortably get in all the ruin 3s under all these buffs, far better than early deathflare just in case it randomly jumps (which bosses dont do)

I also did not say that... I said this...
"No they actually won't (be consistent/predictable), because damage is not constant, so the Boss mob getting to that transition phase is not constant, either with your timing nor your CDs. It COULD turn out that way... but it also might not."

... and this...
"See that's where we disagree,
Especially when you get to dungeons or raids with a lot of movement, adds, transition phases, and a lot of AoEs going off.
If you don't stay flexible, you will lose DPS... not gain it by sticking to a set in stone "rotation"."