Quote Originally Posted by Oxdarock View Post
I'm still not seeing the problem with Saber Dance pushing procs out of Tech Finish since it takes priority. If you mean that Saber Dance pushes out Bloodshower and FountainFall if you follow this exact rotation, that means you just have to rearrange the GCDs so that they do fit into Tech Finish (didn't think it was worth mentioning, but I guess I can add it as an extra note).
The problem is that your Flourished procs are not buffed by Technical Finish’s 5% buff (on top of the already passive 5% Standard Finish buff you have), which is a DPS loss. They will also not be susceptible to Devilment’s increased Crit/D.Hit chance, another potential DPS loss. With the standard DNC opener, the only loss of damage you get if is one of your procs drops. Otherwise, they all fit within a TF window along with your Saber Dance procs, so none of the Flourished skills lose out on the +5% from TF or the additional Crit/D.Hit chance of Devilment.

You’re incredibly insistent on changing buff alignment to be more “uniform”, but you can’t seem the grasp the idea that your proposed DNC “openers” potentially push some of your most potent skills outside of your personal buff window. Defending it with the priority system doesn’t work, since the current opener manages to get all Flourished skills, all Saber Dances, and Standard Finish within the Tech Finish/Devilment window while simultaneously respecting DNC’s priority system. Please, if you can’t understand simple concepts of damage loss, you shouldn’t be designing openers.

I'm not 100% sure I can address the possibility of losing a cast of Flourish overall sufficiently cause there are various situations that can happen, especially on a proc-heavy class like DNC. Let's say you do use Tech Step right after Standard Step and then use Flourish. The next time Flourish comes around, you may have a Flourish proc or you may not, and if it's the former, Flourish will get pushed back a GCD or two. When the next Tech Finish comes around, you'd save Flourish for after Saber Dance (which you'd go into Tech Finish with enough Espirit for) or else risk losing the use of a Flourish move altogether, but end up getting a quick succession of Saber Dance procs, pushing Flourish even further back anyway.
If you have to push TF back a GCD for a proc, that is how you play the job. You keep in mind your delay, but still use the skill on cooldown so long as you do not overwrite a proc. Naturally, Flourish will not drift enough for you to push all of your procs out of a buff window unless you are just completely negligent with managing your rotation. At most, I end up delaying it by maybe a GCD or two—but a lot of TF windows in the current tier require being held for party members to gather (E1S, E2S, E4S), or are affected by downtime (E4S), allowing your cooldowns to realign.

You do not, however, delay Flourish in the opener as you have done here, because now you’ve pushed all subsequent uses back far more than a stray proc would push it back. Keep in mind that you may still get a proc with this proposed usage you’re making before any given Flourish cast, pushing it back even more. The more you push back each Flourish cast, the more you risk all of your Flourished skills not being buffed by your personal buff window with the proposed openers you have made here.

You also cannot guarantee ever going into a Technical window with enough Esprit for a Saber Dance unless you’re in a scenario like E4S, where fight downtime allows you to channel Improvisation for Espirt. Generally, I believe it’s recommended to not be at a high Espirt gauge value before entering Technical Finish because of the likelihood of overcapping your Esprit gauge, which is a huge damage loss.

Also, Flourish is more akin to an oGCD rather than a buff. You use it and it instantly gives you five Flourished abilities. The real question is whether you lose a Flourish proc or not, which can happen whether you've used Flourish or get natural procs before a fight ends or a phase transition. Then you might have a run where you get so many natural Flourish procs that losing a cast of Flourish actually doesn't matter. Lot of situations to consider with DNC that keep one from giving a definitive answer.
Sweetheart, you don’t need to explain how Flourish works to me. I’m already aware of how my job plays. Even if it is “more akin to an oGCD”, it has a relatively short cooldown tuner that is highly susceptible to kill times pushing out an entire use of the skill if it is unnecessarily delayed.

No, the real question is if you lose a cast of it or not. With the way you’re insisting on delaying its very first usage, it’s entirely possible. No, getting “extra procs” throughout a fight doesn’t “make up” losing an entire usage of the skill.

I haven't contacted Theorycrafters about this DNC opener
I already figured as much.

but I've used it myself for some endgame content, so I'm familiar with how it plays.
Yeah, and I don’t think it’s particularly working for you, if the runs of Innocence I looked at are any indication.

Also, I made some silly mistakes with the DRG opener. The second BotD is supposed to be Battle Litany and the second Wheeling Thrust is missing for some reason. Whoops. ^^;
There were more mistakes than just that.


Look. I get that you have this thing with wanting to make the Tornado Kick opener on MNK actually viable, but as I said to you the last time you posted openers, changing buff alignments and changing openers for all the jobs is not worth it for one skill the developers made defunct. The most optimal buff alignments and openers have already been decided—they won’t change, and you should really stop pushing your openers with the name of The Balance included amongst them as if the theorycrafters there endorse what you have done.