Why do you want an Auction House? (discussion)[dev1019]

[Soda]

I honestly have never read so much utter stupidity and uneducated comments on why we shouldn't have an Auction House than in the FFXI/XIV community. Clearly, there are about 50% of you that have played more than 5 minutes of another MMO and realize that there is NO system as functional as an auction house. But the other 50% that are trying to defend the market ward system is just completely insane to me. This game will fail if it doesn't try to model itself after a playable system of standards that EVERY other modern MMO will have. You guys need to realize games like Tera and Guild Wars 2 are coming, and I can garauntee you they're not going to reinvent the wheel when it comes to BASIC game systems (such as an auction house). Why? Because players are comfortable and used to a system like an auction house.

The truth is that Tanaka screwed up bad when it came to putting resources towards reinventing an already working and standarized system generally accepted in MMOs. It's like wanting to change a fundamental aspect of a game, such as the fact that monsters drop loot, just to be new and different. The point I'm trying to make is that the FFXIV team wasted resources trying to innovate in the wrong areas. And what we have to show for it is a half working, buggy, awful mess of a market system in place instead.


Q: But the market wards stop RMT!
A: Have you checked prices for gold on FFXIV recently? Yeah, looks like it really is working [/sarcasm]

Q: Omg I hate having to wait 32409234 days for an auction to end!
A: Clearly anyone thinking this has never used an auction house similar to WoW. I'll explain. When you make an auction, you can set it to 12, 24, or 48 hours. You can specify a buyout price as well. What is buyout you ask? It means that if a player wants to just buy your item instead of bidding on it, they just click "buyout". This essentially combines the idea of an auction house, and something like the current market ward system with it's instant-buy properties. Sounds like win to me.

Q: Everyone is in one city omg wtf
A: Ever heard of linked auction houses? It means that players are free to purchase and buy from any city with an auction house and thus aren't restricted to one "market" city. This spreads players out and actually populates areas that are barren. Why is the bad, exactly?


The current system is tedious, broken, and has probably the worst interface in the entire game at this point. While giving us the ability to search for items is a temporary fix, it doesn't address the major issues that come with the market ward system. As has been explained in this thread, market wards constantly crash and are basically a large and unnecessary strain on servers. The only thing this current system accomplishes is making the process of buying and selling an item as long and tedius as possible. Here is an example for the close-minded "omg WoW is awful FFXI was the best thing ever market wards are perfect" person:

Selling an Item in WoW
1. Go to an auction house in any main city.
2. Talk to an auction house NPC.
3. Drag and drop the item(s) you want to sell into the selling interface.
4. Specify prices. There are dozens of mods in this game that help analyze market prices on the fly. Simply drag your item in and it will automatically tell your market prices, trends, etc. (Search: Auctioneer for those curious).
5. Close the auction house Window.

Selling an Item in FFXIV
1. Go to the market ward in Ul'Dah.
2. Walk up to the invisible wall where a magical box appears from no where.
3. Search through the cumbersome and confusing market wards, and then scroll through them until you (hopefully) find an item you want to sell.
4. Write down the prices of the items you just saw so you have an idea of the market price.
5. Go to whatever market ward corresponds to the items your selling. (By the way, that in and of itself is a huge flaw with market wards for people who want to sell more than one type of item)
6. Wait 10-15 seconds for load time. (Don't say "oh yeah well I load in 5 seconds", because guess what, not everyone has a good computer).
6. Summon your Retainer. Wait a few seconds.
7. Talk to him to manage your items.
8. Scroll through your inventory so you can trade the proper items to him.
9. Look at what you wrote down previously and then use this to set the price.
10. Leave the market ward.
11. Wait 10-15 seconds for the main city to load again.

Do you guys see the point I'm trying to make here? There are WAY too many cumbersome, stupid, useless actions/load times required to do something as simple as selling, buying, and searching for an item. It's utterly broken and the furthest from a working and efficient system I've ever seen.

To me, it sounds like a vast majority of players here have never tried any other MMO and are simply scared of a system they're uncomfortable with. OR, they don't have the ability to grasp the idea of combining working concepts and gaming practices from other successful market systems from other games. It sounds to me like a lot of people have no business making reccomendations on anything here when it comes to game development, honestly.

[Chory]

Why would you want an AH, in FFXI you could only put 6 or 8 (can't remember) items up for sale. Here i get 20 spaces over my 2 retainers

And who said we want AH with 7 slots? We want AH with 20 slots.

[Haruru]

The current market ward duplicates the general system used for an AH by most mmos, but does this at a much higher overhead server and performance wise. It also takes longer to set up than an AH, and is lower to get the item. Constant crashes in the market ward just further hinder, and prove that this system is not working. Add to that, we are seeing a small amount of players compared to what it will be when the game re-launches, and it spells nothing but disaster for the market ward system. It's a lovely idea, but it's just not practical.

I think a more traditional mmo AH with a buy it now system works much better both for the players, and for the lower server overhead.

Cheers

Probably the most succinct post thus far and highlights the main weakness with the wards system. However, i'd like to offer another view which is one in regards to the experience of using either system. At this point, there pretty much is no right or wrong system, only a matter of preference.

Consider this as the difference between online shopping versus going to your local mall. One is purely built around convenience and the experience is primarily limited to the interaction with a browser window. The second is one that is built to emphasize the experience of shopping, browsing, and physical vendors.

I like that the FFXIV designers went with this approach because frankly, when everyone else is doing the same boring AH, I rather enjoy interacting with physical vendors than just a name within a list.

[Dreamer]

I honestly have never read so much utter stupidity and uneducated comments on why we shouldn't have an Auction House than in the FFXI/XIV community. Clearly, there are about 50% of you that have played more than 5 minutes of another MMO and realize that there is NO system as functional as an auction house. But the other 50% that are trying to defend the market ward system is just completely insane to me. This game will fail if it doesn't try to model itself after a playable system of standards that EVERY other modern MMO will have. You guys need to realize games like Tera and Guild Wars 2 are coming, and I can garauntee you they're not going to reinvent the wheel when it comes to BASIC game systems (such as an auction house). Why? Because players are comfortable and used to a system like an auction house.


To me, it sounds like a vast majority of players here have never tried any other MMO and are simply scared of a system they're uncomfortable with. OR, they don't have the ability to grasp the idea of combining working concepts and gaming practices from other successful market systems from other games. It sounds to me like a lot of people have no business making reccomendations on anything here when it comes to game development, honestly.

YOU think it's the best system, some of us don't agree. I've played WoW for nearly five years. LotRO for about three. I've spent four years playing City of Heroes. I've played Aion for about a year and a half. I am very familiar with AH setups of pretty much every kind. It's a fantastic system if you're a buyer, a pain in the rear if you're a seller (except for City of Heroes' Consignment system - it's the opposite).

Market Wards have the potential to create an even playing field for both buyers and sellers. There's no reason to add an extra market system when the current one can provide all of its functionality and then some if streamlined correctly.

[Demacia]

YOU think it's the best system, some of us don't agree. I've played WoW for nearly five years. LotRO for about three. I've spent four years playing City of Heroes. I've played Aion for about a year and a half. I am very familiar with AH setups of pretty much every kind. It's a fantastic system if you're a buyer, a pain in the rear if you're a seller (except for City of Heroes' Consignment system - it's the opposite).

Market Wards have the potential to create an even playing field for both buyers and sellers. There's no reason to add an extra market system when the current one can provide all of its functionality and then some if streamlined correctly.

Potential this, potential that, just give me something that works.

[Kimowar]

I keep saying the best solution to keep retainers and still appease us wanting an AH is to go the way of everquest2, put brokers around the city that work as a search function for retainers, then the buyer is either directed to where the retainer is or buy it directly from the broker at a small fee, win win for both sides,

[Fieros]

ESOL at it again. No need for an auction house. I have a better idea.

[schism]

i could care less about market wards, im lvl 30 and havnt used a ward once i think its silly not to have a global AH. They will learn tho i have confidence in SE.

[Coombah]

I loved XI's AH. Just makes some tweaks to the UI and How many things that can be placed on the AH.

[Reika]

No need for an AH. They just about perfected the Market wards