Now before you overreact

[Chalbee]

Indeed, and it's not even a matter of gender, just body shape - even more so in this game where you have everything from Lalafell to Elezen to Roegadyn all able to equip the same gear, which is no promise that all of them will (or should) look good in any given piece.

I have six different characters currently, and things that look great on one can look awful and badly-fitting on another. It's just how it works.

Indeed. I certainly agree, for example, that the 2B outfit does not look good on all characters; it looks terrible on mine. But that choice should be up to the player. I have no idea if my char looks good in a x,y,z female locked gear because I cannot wear it to find out.

[Iscah]

Indeed. I certainly agree, for example, that the 2B outfit does not look good on all characters; it looks terrible on mine. But that choice should be up to the player. I have no idea if my char looks good in a x,y,z female locked gear because I cannot wear it to find out.

I wasn't meaning that as a reason to keep the gender locks! Definitely let everyone wear everything if they want - but it's also fine, or should be fine, to say [specific dress X] looks bad on male characters because it doesn't complement their body shape, without it being taken as "men shouldn't be allowed to wear this".

[Melichoir]

You better watch out, saying something like that is effectively a crime nowadays.

Eh, if the outrage mob wants to come for me, then Im fine with them wasting their time and breath. Im no bigot no matter how much they huff and puff, so Im not gonna give them the time of day.

Indeed, and it's not even a matter of gender, just body shape - even more so in this game where you have everything from Lalafell to Elezen to Roegadyn all able to equip the same gear, which is no promise that all of them will (or should) look good in any given piece.

I have six different characters currently, and things that look great on one can look awful and badly-fitting on another. It's just how it works.

This is more or less teh crux of glamours in general. they dont look good on certain races. Part of the reason why I play lalafell is the proportions look more cutesy and cartoony. It looks funner for me. Some of my glamours just dont work on Taller races. Inversely, some glamours work way better on taller characters and just dont work for Lalafells. I get that and make glamours that I feel work better for the body size and build. But I think a lot of people dont get this and just slap stuff on not even thinking about that aspect. This gets exacerbated when you take into account Male/Female body shapes on average and stick a glamour that was designed for a more feminine body shape on a very masculine body. It just looks bad stylistically. Of all the meme posts Ive seen about guys wearing 2Bs outfit, I havent seen anyone pull it off and look remotely decent. Only way I can see it working is if someone is looking to pull off a Kefka/Jester-esque kind of feel.

But again, if people want to sport the look, fine by me. Design your characters armor and appearance as you see fit. I think that should be the ultimate goal. The only reason Ill raise a stink is if glamour and armor design starts moving into a 'neutral' design, which inevitably ends up removing feminine aspects from gear.

[Noctisnine]

I for once dislike heavily what they did with 2b male gear, looks horrible in males at least that's my opinion as some people may like it. And I dislike the idea of having similar glamours for different genders.

[Esmoire]

ITT people ultimately not understanding the unfortunate implications of not wanting something just because it favours marginalized groups. Yeah of course this will favour specific groups: people in the queer community (like myself), women who want a more broad range of practical attire (like myself), people who just find guys in some of this stuff hot (like myself), among others. The fact people who will make use of it being a minority as justification for why you shouldn't do it only makes sense in a narrow purview; FFXIV as a product actually is full to the brim of things only a small % of people will enjoy. Opening up clothing for more people to use it, whether it's for genuine expression or just for someone's humour or any reasons in-between, is going to be something that ultimately matters to a minority which is... fine.

Savage raids are just enjoyed by a minority.
While almost everyone will try trades, crafter mains are a minority.
People who like chocobo racing are a minority.

None of them are really inherently worth less of the developer's time as long as a reasonable amount of people will like it, and I do think a reasonable enough amount of people will enjoy this relative to the work required, taking into account the increased requirements as more outfits and potentially race variants are added in the future.

[Melichoir]

snip snap.

I think they were more pointing the the fact that I was saying that males and females are different and have different body builds on average. Even if my stance is "You do you and there shouldnt be limitations," there are some vocal people (on the interwebs broadly) who become...less than happy campers, when the insinuation is that there are differences between the sexes and those differences can affect things - such as clothing design.

[Saefinn]

I think they were more pointing the the fact that I was saying that males and females are different and have different body builds on average. Even if my stance is "You do you and there shouldnt be limitations," there are some vocal people (on the interwebs broadly) who become...less than happy campers, when the insinuation is that there are differences between the sexes and those differences can affect things - such as clothing design.

I know of the kind of people you refer to, but I hadn't spotted it here, however, I accept my reading of the aforementioned post could be inferred rather than implied.

I agree certain fashion is designed around certain biology, but of course that biology isn't always sex or gender restricted either, unless maybe we're talking about something designed specifically with boobs in mind. Given a dainty man might flaunt a Thavnairan bustier better than a very broad and undainty woman, but she might pull off a badass Warrior artefact set better than he does.

[xxvaynxx]

I think it's a good thing to do this,some people my find this a waste but its really not.
This gives people more opportunities to Express themselves, sure some people might use it as a joke but some people will genuinely use this to Express themselves how they want in-game where they can't irl.

Now the only thing I'm worried about is they might make gender neutral outfits more often now.

[rachcouture]

Do you have a link to where it was "officially stated" that the rest of the headgear is coming, and only absent due to time constraints?

Hair was mentioned all the way back in August: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5126637

Helmets were mentioned far before Shadowbringers was released. It's the entire reason why various team members took it upon themselves to convert a huge chunk of items when possible, aside from being called out on Viera not being unique whatsoever.

I think Viera being a female only race with its defining characteristics being a large bust and butt in a thong is a joke but they spent a lot of resources on that too.

I've wanted Viera in this game for a very long time because of their runway model builds and matriarchal society. Their rear end or optionally large bust (something other races already have) had nothing to do with it.

Look, if people want stuff to be worn by both sexes, that should be fine, and frankly all the outfits should be wearable more or less by either sex. That being said, I personally find it silly to see male characters running around in 2B's gear, simply because it looks pretty awful. I dont think people fully understand that some clothing articles are designed to accentuate certain features on females or males, so sticking it on the opposite sex doesnt work out to well because, you know, males and females are not 1:1 copies of one another and have some differences in their morphology.

While this doesn't so much apply to FFXIV as most male PC models are sexualized, in real life, there do happen to be men with a feminine figure, and women with a masculine figure. It's not that black and white.

[Iscah]

Hair was mentioned all the way back in August: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5126637

Helmets were mentioned far before Shadowbringers was released. It's the entire reason why various team members took it upon themselves to convert a huge chunk of items when possible, aside from being called out on Viera not being unique whatsoever.

The quote you linked has nothing to do with headgear, which is what I was talking about when you called my post "disingenuous".

And I know about the team spending their own time modeling headgear - I quoted Yoshida's post about it. The reason they did that is because (as Yoshida had said at the Fan Fest presentation) headgear was not going to display at all on the new races.

It sounds clear to me that they had not been assigned any work time to create these models, because the executive decision had been "no headgear at all" because of the unique character designs. Instead they put their own time and effort into making some compatible types of items equippable anyway.

While I don't have a character of either of the races, my understanding is that it's all glasses, circlets and hairpins, but no hats or helmets that would cover up part of the hair. It's a clear line they aren't crossing, even with new gear. It's not just time constraints.