Please reconsider removing job restrictions on glamour armor

[Kazrah]

While I don't really mind the job restrictions on gear (mostly because I know how to work my way around it), I'm far more annoyed about gear restrictions added on crafter and gatherer gear past level 50 just because of wondering why that's still a thing.

[CazzT]

Yoshi-P: to answer about removing the job restrictions, unfortunately, we don’t intend to remove them. The reason is simple.

For players who have played other Final Fantasy titles, they’ll easily recognize these gear designs as a way to identify a particular job...You wouldn’t want to see someone carrying an axe casting black magic. You’d wonder: What the hell kind of game is this?

This cannot be an acceptable reason for the restriction with the current state of the game's armor selection.

That's a perfectly legitimate reason, though.

First off, the excuse about carrying an axe and casting black magic doesn't make sense. No one is talking about glamouring job weapons. I feel like we all understand THAT wouldn't make sense. So it is a horrible example for why the restriction is in place.

It would not make sense to see a Warrior or Paladin in Black Mage garb, either. Think past the words written to the context of what's being said.

Second, if they are going to use the old excuse that the "gear designs" are meant to "identify a particular job", they have long since thrown that out the window with the glamour options we have received. Particularly the joke ones.

Except they haven't. Adding additional armor into the game that anyone can use does not change the reality that the class armor is designed around the class identity.

Reasons Restrictions Should Be Removed

1 = We already have actual job swapped gear models/recolors
2 = NPCs have mixed gear "glamour" already
3 = Special NPC outfits are no longer "unique" to them
4 = Make "Artifact" armor and equivalents the exceptions5 = Joke glamours exist

1 - Not exactly. There are armors that are similar, but still distinctly different. There are no armor sets that look like PLD, WAR, DRG, WHM, AST, etc class sets that other classes can wear. If you're referring to raid drops, those are not "class sets".

2 - NPCs are not players. NPCs have abilities that players do not, and likely never will, have. PLD is a good example. PLD does not have a massive frontal cone attack, but there are two PLD NPCs that use just such an attack. NPCs have and get things players do not. This is not an acceptable reason to remove restrictions.

3 - Looking like a character does not require being that character's job. If you wear the same outfit as your friend, you don't suddenly become what they are. Not an acceptable reason to remove restrictions.

4 - I'm unsure what you think class sets are if not the Artifact gear sets.

5 - Joke glamours were never designed to be class/job specific. Not an acceptable reason to remove restrictions.

These are acceptable representations of:
"a way to identify a particular job" - Yoshi-P 2019

None of those were designed as class/job sets.

An armor design that is not tied to any specific class/job. It is tied to a specific NPC. There is a difference.

But this is not acceptable

What's wrong with this? It's an NPC, not a player. It's not even an iconic NPC, in fact. This is standard practice in MMOs.

I feel like I made a reasonable explanation and gave plenty of examples for why glamour job restrictions on armor should be removed.

So FFXIV team, please remove job restrictions on glamour armor already, it's almost 2020.

But you haven't given any legitimate or acceptable reasons for the restrictions to be removed. You've cited examples that have nothing to do with class/job, which completely ignores what YoshiP said.

There's no reason to remove the restrictions on class gear. It would make no sense, lore or otherwise, to allow a Warrior or Paladin or Dragoon or Whitemage to run around in Black Mage or Ninja or Bard or Scholar garb.

[MsQi]

There's no reason to remove the restrictions on class gear. It would make no sense, lore or otherwise, to allow a Warrior or Paladin or Dragoon or Whitemage to run around in Black Mage or Ninja or Bard or Scholar garb.

1. A person can put on clothes, etc.
2. A lot of the gear restricted to particular jobs is not gear designed specifically for that/those job(s).
3. Your character is not only one Job/Class.
4. The glamour and gear system does not support Job/Class identity. There are 18 jobs and 11 crafter and gatherer classes, but only 15 glamour plate. Any one item can only have one glamour applied and many jobs/classes end up sharing gear. You cant even have multiples of most high end gear if you wanted to. If you have a glamour that is exclusive to Red Mage when you switch to Black Mage you have the generic look. You can only apply plates in certain areas.

What's wrong with this? It's an NPC, not a player. It's not even an iconic NPC, in fact. This is standard practice in MMOs.

Ok Yda and Papalymo. Iconic characters, specifically identified as a Pugilist and a Thaumaturge. Both wear plate gear.

[Alucard135]

1. A person can put on clothes, etc.
2. A lot of the gear restricted to particular jobs is not gear designed specifically for that/those job(s).
3. Your character is not only one Job/Class.
4. The glamour and gear system does not support Job/Class identity. There are 18 jobs and 11 crafter and gatherer classes, but only 15 glamour plate. Any one item can only have one glamour applied and many jobs/classes end up sharing gear. You cant even have multiples of most high end gear if you wanted to. If you have a glamour that is exclusive to Red Mage when you switch to Black Mage you have the generic look. You can only apply plates in certain areas.



Ok Yda and Papalymo. Iconic characters, specifically identified as a Pugilist and a Thaumaturge. Both wear plate gear.

Add to that, Yoshi P in an interview said that if players wanted a certain gear for glamour (not job ones) they should request it and they will make one for it. That's why we got lots of lvl1 gear for glamour in Eureka that were role limited. As I said before, I think to overcome the issue of recoding the glamour system, they could instead provide us with means of either converting the gear we want into level 1 replicas that are open for all classes (probably least stressful on their servers), or means to buy replicas of our gear.

[Dogempire]

Snip.

Lore reasons is an extremely lazy excuse to not add something widely requested, sure lore is important but the fact of the matter is that a majority of the fanbase doesn't care about the lore to the extent that they would support denying changing current content so that it benefits other players and allows them to get more enjoyment out of the game simply because the lore doesn't allow it. Not only that, but I don't recall ever seeing something lore related say that it's impossible to glamour white mage robes over machinist armor, I mean, it's glamour.

Plus, even if lore was the reason you can't mix armors from different classes, you can always add some new quest or something lore related that retcons that restriction somehow. I mean if we didn't have the echo I'm pretty sure the vast majority of us wouldn't have made it to level 50 and would be permadead somewhere in Tam Tara or Stone Vigil if we started restricting the game by only allowing things that are lore friendly.

Anyways, my point is that lore isn't a good reason for not lifting glamour restrictions. Most people here are only advocating for armor glamour restriction removal anyways, not weapon.

[CazzT]

1. A person can put on clothes, etc.
2. A lot of the gear restricted to particular jobs is not gear designed specifically for that/those job(s).
3. Your character is not only one Job/Class.
4. The glamour and gear system does not support Job/Class identity. There are 18 jobs and 11 crafter and gatherer classes, but only 15 glamour plate. Any one item can only have one glamour applied and many jobs/classes end up sharing gear. You cant even have multiples of most high end gear if you wanted to. If you have a glamour that is exclusive to Red Mage when you switch to Black Mage you have the generic look. You can only apply plates in certain areas.

1 - Saying a person can change clothes is irrelevant to removing restrictions.
2 - Which I addressed.
3 - Completely irrelevant.
4 - The number of glamour plates is irrelevant to the design of the job gear. Glamour plates didn't even exist until Stormblood. Another irrelevant point.

Ok Yda and Papalymo. Iconic characters, specifically identified as a Pugilist and a Thaumaturge. Both wear plate gear.

Still NPCs. The rules for NPC gear are not the same for job gear for players. This has always been the case, and is the case in pretty much every MMO.

Lore reasons is an extremely lazy excuse to not add something widely requested

For something that is centered around the lore of a job, it's not an excuse, it's a fundamental reason for keeping it the way it is.

sure lore is important but the fact of the matter is that a majority of the fanbase doesn't care about the lore to the extent that they would support denying changing current content so that it benefits other players and allows them to get more enjoyment out of the game simply because the lore doesn't allow it.

So you support throwing out lore in favor of what a supposed majority want? A big reason why FFXIV is so highly praised is because the devs do not sacrifice lore in that way.

Plus, even if lore was the reason you can't mix armors from different classes, you can always add some new quest or something lore related that retcons that restriction somehow.

This says everything I need to know. Retconning is the worst thing a writer can do. Especially for "gameplay" reasons.

Anyways, my point is that lore isn't a good reason for not lifting glamour restrictions. Most people here are only advocating for armor glamour restriction removal anyways, not weapon.

When lore is a fundamental part of the jobs' gear aesthetics, it's a perfectly valid reason for not lifting the restrictions.

Consider: When you see Final Fantasy art, regardless of which title it's from, you can quickly pick out jobs/classes by how they look. What you, and others in this thread, are asking for is to throw that away. It's one of the defining characteristics of the entire franchise.

[MsQi]

1 - Saying a person can change clothes is irrelevant to removing restrictions.
2 - Which I addressed.
3 - Completely irrelevant.
4 - The number of glamour plates is irrelevant to the design of the job gear. Glamour plates didn't even exist until Stormblood. Another irrelevant point.


Still NPCs. The rules for NPC gear are not the same for job gear for players. This has always been the case, and is the case in pretty much every MMO.

1. entirely relevant. There is no lore that keeps a person from wearing stuff they own.
2. and what you said supported no restrictions. Since they aren't designed for jobs they shouldn't be arbitrarily restricted.
3. Completely relevant
4. Entirely relevant. The systems in place are contrary to what they claim is important.

What are these rules you made up? You think lore keeps me from putting on tank armor when I'm a mage, but it doesn't keep NPCs from doing it? They live in the same world.

[CazzT]

1. entirely relevant. There is no lore that keeps a person from wearing stuff they own.
2. and what you said supported no restrictions. Since they aren't designed for jobs they shouldn't be arbitrarily restricted.
3. Completely relevant
4. Entirely relevant. The systems in place are contrary to what they claim is important.

1 - Nothing is preventing you from wearing gear for your jobs that is not designed for that specific job. Black Mage garb for Black Mage. I'm not referring to raid/tome gear. I have already made that clear.
2 - It did not support no restrictions. Read it again.
3 - Incorrect.
4 - They are not. Being able to wear a different piece of armor does not invalidate the restrictions. They are not reliant on each other.

What are these rules you made up?

Not liking reality does not mean someone made up rules.

You think lore keeps me from putting on tank armor when I'm a mage, but it doesn't keep NPCs from doing it? They live in the same world.

You refuse to accept that rules for NPCs are different from rules for players. You completely ignored my point that NPCs have skills/spells that players do not for the same job. The same goes for gear for NPCs. You're free to not like it, but it's still the reality of the situation. And it's not something that's going to change. And before you twist my words into saying that restrictions will never be lifted, I'm referring to how NPCs are geared.

You also entirely ignored my point about it being a defining characteristic of the franchise.

[Dogempire]

Consider: When you see Final Fantasy art, regardless of which title it's from, you can quickly pick out jobs/classes by how they look. What you, and others in this thread, are asking for is to throw that away. It's one of the defining characteristics of the entire franchise.

Ah yes, because when I see a super buff Roe in a bikini and a Frog head I think "That's definitely a summoner"

We have a glamour system for a reason, and that reason is because it adds another dimension of fun to the game by letting you pick and choose your own custom outfits based on the gear you have available to you.

[linay]

Ah yes, because when I see a super buff Roe in a bikini and a Frog head I think "That's definitely a summoner"

No, you'd think that's someone in a bikini and a frog head. The existence of such types of (all classes) glamour does not change the fact that there are gears that are associated with certain jobs/roles. Again, a green Shisui set is associated with Ninja regardless if you think that's a suitable gear for Ninja. When you see someone wearing that gear, you can know that's a ninja unless you've misidentified the gear.