The contempt for people with disabled people in this community really concerns me

[SerLuke]

So in multiple threads I’ve seen people saying people with disabilities should be weeded out and quit the game or they can’t clear certain content (solo instances in this case). I brought up that I have a learning disability and sometimes it takes me longer to clear normal mode raid content than most people but I eventually do(for what it’s worth in the past I’ve cleared a couple relevant(at the time)floors of savage (A9, A10, O1, O2, and O5) after lots(and lots) of attempts but I don’t bother with it anymore because I’m afraid of attitudes I see here.)

Can we stop assuming that just because a player is struggling means they are “bad and don’t want to improve”? I want to improve but I do so at a slower pace than most people and it’s VERY hurtful when I read comments like that because I read myself into it, so please take a moment and think before making broad generalized statements about “bads”.

I even brought up my struggles with my disability in a thread and attempt to show not all “bads” aren’t trying and all I was told that the game shouldn’t cater to me, can we please have a bit more of an open mind here?

[MrKusakabe]

Now you reach for a strawman to inflate a statement by acting like those people attacked disabled and handicapped people. That never happened, it's just the first thing one of the members here bring up stoically like Maude from the Simpsons shouting "Think of the children" everytime. Also, you mix up many valid complaints, and I just bring in my LoL example again: In League of Legends, people are afraid from the core game, so they play Coop vs AI games. These games are extremely easy and require nothing to win. Players get their free points for participating and "winning" and they feel so good and awesome. Then they join PvP and feed the heck out of the game, they then call everyone toxic (the irony is: They are by feeding) and ragequit.

The problem here is simple: You will have two clashing mindsets.

The one group of people that want to get trophy on the easiest way, they do not even bother to retry again but want to choose the way of the least resistance. The bonus you get on choosing "Very easy" is massive, it's in the patchnotes.

Many of you even say "They are not hard and you don't learn anything from them", so why do you want a difficulty selection then in the first place? Right, because you can't rely on your mates to carry you trough here for once. You get trough the instance on super easy - and in the next two quests, you will have a dungeon with no such bonnusses.

And here we clash with the players that do not give up quickly: Since you don't have 100% bonusses from the echo, you drop dead quickly, heals do not one-shot heal you anymore and the healer will most probably not take care of you as it happens in these solo instances where you could stand in everything and still survive and getting healed up quickly, so you are prone to die quickly and are not quite a help for your team. To go back quickly to LoL: I refused to carry one of these dudes myself and ALT+F4'ed a couple of days ago. Backseat-drivers from Coop-Vs-AI games are the worst to deal with and carry...

What can I expect from a player that chooses super easy but then sits in my party? I know you guys come up with mentally unstable people, children and all these things (man, we played much more difficult stuff on MegaDrive and NES as "children") as a way to shut down any voices against it, but that's just a cheap rhetorical way. I remember that I asked one person why he has such a bad German in a chatroom and the knee-jerk reaction was: "I have dyslexia" (No, he actually did not, he just CBA).

Also, when I struggled with my Red Mage final quest that I retried 4 times because I failed to see the what X'rhun did, and that I reset the fight by myself once etc. I was buying new equipment and tried again. In one run I even turned off the echo because I always know the developers want me to beat it. I eventually made it, and I actually learned a bit from that instance - The use of Displacement in the right moment.

So yes, I think waving people trough content that was designed to be beatable in the first place is not a good thing, and a very, very small percentage of the overall playerbase is "disabled". I start to understand why people use parsers if this permanent excusing is going on in the dungeons: To find the one culprit and replace him. Imagine you ask that person what the matter is and they play the "I am disabled" card left and right.....


If you are a slow learner, you should NOT use the easiest way then, no? You don't learn anything by skipping that instance..


Sincerely,

[Jemi]

I completely sympathize with what you're saying. But to be honest, I'd say that having a disability doesn't even matter much for this. People should understand either way that not everyone will go at the same pace as them. Some people just straight up take longer to learn new fights or rotations, disability or not. They're probably talented in some other area of life, but video game mechanics may not be one of them.

It'd be the same as one student getting an A in Calculus without studying and another student needing to study for 3 hours every day to achieve the same grade.

Regardless, I'm very sorry to hear that people have said these things to you, OP. I wish people were more open-minded as well.

[Sebazy]

So in multiple threads I’ve seen people saying people with disabilities should be weeded out and quit the game or they can’t clear certain content (solo instances in this case).

Please cite the posts here. That sort of attitude isn't acceptable and hasn't been for the longest time.

I brought up that I have a learning disability and sometimes it takes me longer to clear normal mode raid content than most people but I eventually do(for what it’s worth in the past I’ve cleared a couple relevant(at the time)floors of savage (A9, A10, O1, O2, and O5) after lots(and lots) of attempts but I don’t bother with it anymore because I’m afraid of attitudes I see here.)

If you can clear raid content without paying for a carry, then the ire isn't relevant to you in any way.

Can we stop assuming that just because a player is struggling means they are “bad and don’t want to improve”? I want to improve but I do so at a slower pace than most people and it’s VERY hurtful when I read comments like that because I read myself into it, so please take a moment and think before making broad generalized statements about “bads”.

I'd love to. I really would. But no, I can't. Because the vast majority of players that are struggling in this content are indeed bad and have little to no interest in simply reading the tooltips or approaching other players with an open mind for advice. They simply view this as a looter shooter where other people have no choice but to do the shooting for them and meeting one that's willing to actually listen and make some efforts to improve is incredibly scarce.

I even brought up my struggles with my disability in a thread and attempt to show not all “bads” aren’t trying and all I was told that the game shouldn’t cater to me, can we please have a bit more of an open mind here?

You may well bring it up here, but I've never once in all my years and hours in this game had someone who I've approached about the standard of their play say that they had a disability that was holding them back. I played alongside people with various disabilities over the years and you know what? They've always put in that extra effort to make sure they weren't holding anyone back. So yeah, I'm going to keep assuming the bads are indeed just bads until I see any actual legitimate suggestion that they are anything but bad.

I'm massively against further diluting the MSQ aspects of the game. But most certainly not because might weed out some people with disabilities. That's absolute BS.

I'm against diluting the MSQ because it is or rather was the beginning of this games difficulty curve. A difficulty curve that was absolutely perfect in ARR but has steadily got significantly worse with each expansion. Now it's just a flat line with a couple of speed bumps that head into the low 'wall' that is 24 man.

There's just no progression any more. That's poor and unengaging design right there.

[Archaell]

Consider yourself to be matched with players who press skills randomly because they were carried the whole way by others. You can barely do your part, and now these people push their jobs on you, make you more likely to make mistakes - while correcting their mistakes - ultimately causing you lot of pointless stress and bad feelings when you fail while the boss should have been already dead few minutes ago. Bad players hurt the players who barely struggle (people with disabilities included) the most.

[Rokke]

Why do you regularly assume anyone disagreeing with you is against disabled people and/or elitist ?

[Dzian]

You may well bring it up here, but I've never once in all my years and hours in this game had someone who I've approached about the standard of their play say that they had a disability that was holding them back. I played alongside people with various disabilities over the years and you know what? They've always put in that extra effort to make sure they weren't holding anyone back.

A friend if mine. Plays with 1 arm and one working eye from a childhood accident And he's cleared ultimate.

He's got a specialised foot controller and joystick setup that cost a grand but still..

Worst thing about it is him calling me out cos he can do it "one handed" so I should get off my ass and motivate myself to get it done.....

[yasmo]

Now you reach for a strawman to inflate a statement by acting like those people attacked disabled and handicapped people. That never happened[...]

I don't think OP ever said people were attacking the disabled, moreso saying they saw people say things along the lines of "if you can't complete a solo duty, you don't deserve to progress". Even if it's not intentional there's an implication that people with disabilities shouldn't be allowed to keep playing because that is oft the type of person who has difficulty completing solo duties.

Many of you even say "They are not hard and you don't learn anything from them", so why do you want a difficulty selection then in the first place? Right, because you can't rely on your mates to carry you trough here for once. You get trough the instance on super easy - and in the next two quests, you will have a dungeon with no such bonnusses.

Are people forgetting how early you do solo instances? You have to do like, two, maybe three of them before even hitting Sastasha. What is there to be carried through up until then? If for whatever reason someone is failing every solo duty up to that point and using the super easy mode they'll very quickly learn group content plays completely different, not by the time they hit Shadowbringers endgame.

And here we clash with the players that do not give up quickly: Since you don't have 100% bonusses from the echo, you drop dead quickly, heals do not one-shot heal you anymore and the healer will most probably not take care of you as it happens in these solo instances where you could stand in everything and still survive and getting healed up quickly, so you are prone to die quickly and are not quite a help for your team

...Which brings me to my next point: who out there is going to confuse solo duty difficulty with party content past level 20?

So yes, I think waving people trough content that was designed to be beatable in the first place is not a good thing, and a very, very small percentage of the overall playerbase is "disabled"[...] Imagine you ask that person what the matter is and they play the "I am disabled" card left and right.....

So because a small percentage of the playerbase is disabled they shouldn't be allowed to progress and play the game? Only a small percentage of players even attempt Ultimate fights, should the game stop making them? Catering to a niche isn't a crime, lmao.

Also, I'm hoping this is a general statement you aren't directing at OP but regardless implying that people will be "play[ing] the 'I am disabled' card" is an iffy thing to say. Considering the outright contempt people have for those with disabilities in real life I really doubt people will start using it an an "excuse" en masse.

[SendohJin]

Why do you regularly assume anyone disagreeing with you is against disabled people and/or elitist ?

because people say stuff like this

If you are a slow learner, you should NOT use the easiest way then, no? You don't learn anything by skipping that instance..

some people aren't just slow learners, they just can't do any better. their objective isn't to learn anything it's to get through it to get to the next part.

[Rokke]

because people say stuff like this
[...]
some people aren't just slow learners, they just can't do any better. their objective isn't to learn anything it's to get through it to get to the next part.

Pretty much any game with more player control than a slot machine is going to have some kind of learning curve, be it a side scroller, a fighting game, a turn based jrpg, etc. Setting the game to easy mode will still require you to press 123 while avoiding orange markers. Progressing past 123 while avoiding orange markers will lead to pressing 1234 while avoiding orange markers, to 12345 while avoiding orange markers, and so on.

OP is lv 80, is done with SHB, and has some savage clears under his belt. His assumption that the forum’s disdain for lowering the difficulty further equates disdain for people who have learning disabilities like himself is a strawman at best. This thread is the equivalent to karma farming on reddit, complete with a clickbait title.