How SE is alienating talented players

[Matsume]

Someone posted a brilliant idea in another thread: Make All Mobs Defeated Achievement

Let me explain to you how this provides the best of both worlds with an example:

Normal Run = 3/5 Chests; Iron, Silver, and Electrum Chests
Speed Run = 4/5 Chests; Iron, Silver, Electrum, AND Mythril Chests
All Mobs = 4/5 Chests; Iron, Silver, Electrum, AND Cobalt Chests

In this case, speed runs require that you forgoe half the mobs in the dungeon thus making it impossible to get the all mobs chest simultaneously. Likewise, killing all the mobs in the dungeon requires more time than is required for speed runs thus making it impossible to get the speed run chest simultaneously.

In this case, players would have reason to do both speed runs and full mob runs because they unlock different chests that contain different loot. Also, one serves as a stepping stone for the other. That is, killing all the mobs helps the players get a better understanding of the dungeon which can lead to speed runs thereafter.

Perhaps this can be a groundbreaking novelty system for future end game instanced raids, where in choices are made by the players in real time that determine the outcome of the rewards. Also, implenting an instance where in more than one strategy leads to different results as far as chests are concerned will break the monotony of doing the same thing over and over again.

This can be done for a much bigger dungeon with many more than 2/3 paths to choose from for ex:

a 5 boss dungeon with 20 chests.

5 chests can be picked up along the way to bosses (1 chest on the path to each boss with varying pop requirements like the lily room)

First boss drops 1 chest guarentee

Second boss drops 1/2 chest guarentee
One extra chest possible from second boss if certain conditions are met

Third boss drops 1/3 chest guarentee
Another two chest chests possible from third boss, conditions to spawn one of two
extra chests negate the possibility to spawn the other one.

Fourth boss drops 2/4 chests guarentee
Another two chests possible from fourth boss, again, conditions required to spawn
one negates the possibility to spawn the second.

Fifth boss drops 3/5 chests guarentee
Fifth boss drops one of two extra chests depending on "speed run" and "all mobs cleared run"

Timers would be required.

Most importantly though, critical thinking skills and decision making will be priority. The 5 non boss chests would require something along the lines of killing the 4 lilies to spawn them while the extra boss chests would be in direct conflict with one another: you wont be able to get speed run chest if you clear all mobs, etc.

So that in the end obtaining ALL the chests in this dungeon would be impossible. Maybe 15/20 max. Or 10/20 on average.

How does that sound?

[Yelta_Sumasu]

I would enjoy multiple ways to run a dungeon, with different rewards depending on how you do it. Even just what they did with Toto-Rak at least gave a reason to run all 3 ways a few times and I am a little sad they didn't expand on that in either of the new ones. I sort of even like the idea that you cannot, by design, do 100% of a dungeons content in 1 raid.

Don't get me wrong, I like both the new raids and really, Cutter's Cry is a lot of fun!

[DeadRiser]

Lol speed runs. Finishing the dungeons for some linkshells is still what's in the process.

I'd rather longer lockouts with a better reward system. This grinding for gear gets a little old, especially when the next patch, no one wear's what they won because there is better gear.

[Andrien]

Not enough content for long lockouts.

Low drop rate is justifiable for a 15min wait.

[darkstarpoet1]

Not enough content for long lockouts.

Low drop rate is justifiable for a 15min wait.

this was my only argument against long lockouts myself.

right now let's say they add a 72 hour lockout. you can complete cc, av, and ifrit in a little over 1 hour if you are in a skilled group that has already been doing speed runs. no, my group has not been doing speed runs because we're only running 2 hours every other night and not daily. we are also trying to make our own strategy and not follow youtube videos from start to finish like alot of other groups have seemed to do.

so are you saying that the good crews should only get in and play for 1 hour every 3 days? if there was more content in the game where they could do multiple things in a day i'd agree to longer lockouts, but not at this point.

[LittleLala]

we are also trying to make our own strategy and not follow youtube videos from start to finish like alot of other groups have seemed to do.

I had to lol; "I'd rather spend hours coming to the same conclusion people who've posted vids on youtube have" If I was handicapped with a slow dungeon-attempting LS you seem to have (2 hours ever other night) I would not be wasting time trying to come up with my own strat, leave it to those LS' that can afford to - then watch their vid (lol)

[darkstarpoet1]

I had to lol; "I'd rather spend hours coming to the same conclusion people who've posted vids on youtube have" If I was handicapped with a slow dungeon-attempting LS you seem to have (2 hours ever other night) I would not be wasting time trying to come up with my own strat, leave it to those LS' that can afford to - then watch their vid (lol)

i'm not saying we haven't watched the videos. what i am saying is that we are not following them step by step. i've already seen parties that are only allowing members in that meet the job setup of those videos. we are not going to tell a member they can't join because they don't have x job maxed even if that job is less than efficient they do have.

we ran super hard on ifrit, but not going to burn ourselves out like that on the dungeons as well. besides we have found a few job setups that have allowed us to beat both of the bosses in av as fast as any of the speed run videos we have found. coincounter downed in 2:11 for example. we just haven't taken the time to setup for the speed run through the dungeon itself.

you can follow every video you want and be a sheep and follow in their footsteps if you want, but doing things exactly like someone else does takes away from that sense of accomplishment for me. i've already seen things mentioned in here about these dungeons and are taken as fact because of who stated it, but after testing can verify that it's not true. we are willing to test stuff, but we also keep an open mind for other options.

edit: as far as being handicapped we did that ourselves. we ran ifrit 5-6 hours every night with the same static group of 8 people and found our own strategy. it felt so much better when we beat it ourselves only a few days after the groups that ran rotation groups in and out 24 hours a day. we just didn't want to make the same mistakes this time.

[kro]

With a 72 hour lockout, it would take a really long time to get enough practice in to complete the dungeon successfully, let alone a speed run.

Sure, if you know what you know now a longer lockout with higher drop rates would be great. But that initial process of learning how to run the dungeon efficiently would be way too long. And with only one chance every 72 hours, every group going in would have to be a separate 8 man static and the whole swapping in members thing for a few runs would cease to exist.

[cha0sking]

I say that being "elite" is a stupid title, when you run a dungeon 25-30 times. I'd rather do a couple of runs, go do something else. Plus, being the "elite" you are, just enjoy the game and not suck the effing life out of it. Being "elite" in an MMO means you understand its mechanics, thus succumb to its downfalls when there is no other solution. I'd rather them making the drop rate low for returning members than having "elites" camp the eff out of a dungeon. I say f*** "elites" for camping dungeons, and break their hearts SE. Not being a troll, but the condescending "elite" blew my fuse.

[tachi]

The dungeons are very very easy, whats not easy is learning how to do them correctly. There are many tricks to make them very easy, and the boss's even easier the hard part is getting everyone on the same page and getting it done. Learning the tricks is to me the fun part and the hard part. After you have a winning strat that gets you 5 chests then its just execution. I'm just glad we have a much higher requirement on execution in order to get a 5/5 run. If you get lazy even for a minute its easy for things to get out of hand and wipe.