Thread: 5.1 Crafting Feedback Thread

On the other hand the rewards are not tradeable, so there probably isn't a whole lot of incentive for botters to obtain them. Or are you suggesting they'd enact some sort of ransom scheme where the bots will dominate the leaderboard unless you pay their owners to make them go away?

Originally Posted by KageTokage

One of few things they seem incapable of doing is distinguishing tugs because every FSH bot I've seen just reels in literally everything they hook instead of gauging tug time/strength to increase the odds of hooking something desirable.

What would be the benefit of not reeling it in? I mean, won't you lose your bait anyway and have to cast again if you don't respond to the tug? I guess you might save a few seconds of catching animation.

Originally Posted by tdb

What would be the benefit of not reeling it in? I mean, won't you lose your bait anyway and have to cast again if you don't respond to the tug? I guess you might save a few seconds of catching animation.

The benefit is not wasting GP on hookset abilities on the wrong catch. If you're just doing cast/hook/cast/hook/cast/hook then yeah, it doesn't matter.. go nuts. But if you're going for something specific, you're using patience and you're using hooksets and that costs GP.

Originally Posted by Callinon

The benefit is not wasting GP on hookset abilities on the wrong catch. If you're just doing cast/hook/cast/hook/cast/hook then yeah, it doesn't matter.. go nuts. But if you're going for something specific, you're using patience and you're using hooksets and that costs GP.

Right, yes, those. But if a fishing bot is using patience, wouldn't it be doubly bad to not recognize the tug since the wrong hookset just wastes GP without providing any benefit? I've always used patience just for the HQ boost, but I guess the "increases the likelihood of catching larger fish" on patience II counts for something. I don't even remember when I last needed to use mooching to catch something outside of quests, so catching HQ fishes hasn't been hugely important to me.

Originally Posted by KageTokage

One of few things they seem incapable of doing is distinguishing tugs because every FSH bot I've seen just reels in literally everything they hook instead of gauging tug time/strength to increase the odds of hooking something desirable.

To be fair, I kind of suck at that irl too... <.<

No really, I do. Took me AGES to work out how long was too long for sweetflesh oysters. And even then I caught far more other fish than I wanted.

On a side note, is anyone else concerned with the kind of action changes they're planning to make after the last overhaul? Putting the new Ishgard stuff aside (which sounds like it won't function with macros anyway if you need to try and force a particular condition), I use macros religiously for most of my normal crafting. And I'm a little worried that they're all going to break again and force me to redo them all. Again.

Originally Posted by Kytrin

To be fair, I kind of suck at that irl too... <.<

No really, I do. Took me AGES to work out how long was too long for sweetflesh oysters. And even then I caught far more other fish than I wanted.

On a side note, is anyone else concerned with the kind of action changes they're planning to make after the last overhaul? Putting the new Ishgard stuff aside (which sounds like it won't function with macros anyway if you need to try and force a particular condition), I use macros religiously for most of my normal crafting. And I'm a little worried that they're all going to break again and force me to redo them all. Again.

I suppose that depends on what you consider "normal crafting". I don't think they'll make too many changes to the basics that any crafter is using regularly. I can see changes being made to anything that end game crafters rely on, especially the actions that rely on or are extremely powerful with the special conditions.

I don't see the problem with having to rewrite macros in a game that isn't static. Things change, we adjust to the changes. Making new macros doesn't take that long and will last a few months until the next set of changes, whether in gear or action effect.

Originally Posted by Jojoya

I suppose that depends on what you consider "normal crafting". I don't think they'll make too many changes to the basics that any crafter is using regularly. I can see changes being made to anything that end game crafters rely on, especially the actions that rely on or are extremely powerful with the special conditions.

I don't see the problem with having to rewrite macros in a game that isn't static. Things change, we adjust to the changes. Making new macros doesn't take that long and will last a few months until the next set of changes, whether in gear or action effect.

Sorry, I thought I was clear on that. I meant anything not Ishgard Restoration related. And I realize we have to update macros every time there's an update, but considering we JUST got a major overhaul... you'll need to forgive me if I'm a little concerned about having to go back and rework not just my endgame macros but every single leveling macro/rotation I've given to people after only 3-4 months.

Originally Posted by tdb

On the other hand the rewards are not tradeable, so there probably isn't a whole lot of incentive for botters to obtain them. Or are you suggesting they'd enact some sort of ransom scheme where the bots will dominate the leaderboard unless you pay their owners to make them go away?

Not everyone who bots is a RMT trader. There are plenty of "real" players out there using some form of 3rd party automation to crank out crafted items while they're afk.

Do you honestly think those players are going to hesitate using that automation to get their leaderboard bragging rights when rankings are based on number of items contributed?

SE made a mistake basing rankings on "greatest contribution" instead of greatest quality. If the rankings were based on the greatest quality from a limited number of turn-ins, players manually crafting have a decent chance to end up at the top of the rankings over players who automate. When the rankings are based on how much you turn in, only those who automate have a chance to win. It's a futile effort to try to compete against those breaking ToS.

Originally Posted by Jojoya

Not everyone who bots is a RMT trader. There are plenty of "real" players out there using some form of 3rd party automation to crank out crafted items while they're afk.

Do you honestly think those players are going to hesitate using that automation to get their leaderboard bragging rights when rankings are based on number of items contributed?

SE made a mistake basing rankings on "greatest contribution" instead of greatest quality. If the rankings were based on the greatest quality from a limited number of turn-ins, players manually crafting have a decent chance to end up at the top of the rankings over players who automate. When the rankings are based on how much you turn in, only those who automate have a chance to win. It's a futile effort to try to compete against those breaking ToS.

Would have to agree that a competition based upon how can do the most farming in the shortest amount of time is kinda stupid, as that just invites botting.

The easiest way to mitigate botting, is to make it so botting is less productive and/or make it so that you don't really gain anything out of botting, as you make it too risky for too little gain. But the moment you slap a competition on it, and make the terms of the competition such that it is advantageous to bot, then yeah, you're basically throwing the doors wide open and inviting them in.

While I said earlier that I do not believe we should be detracting from players' enjoyment in an attempt to kill bots (IE, FFXI fishing, as per my earlier example), I don't believe that we should design new content with a total disregard of bots, either. Some of your suggestions are good ones, like jack the quality of the Lv80 items up so high that it is literally impossible to 100% and then make it so that the top players are the ones who win, because you'd never bot if you were trying for the highest quality. That's actually a rather good suggestion, and I don't know why they didn't do this already.

Other than the fact that getting the best would require absolute BiS and they probably didn't want players feeling pressured to obtain BiS ASAP in time for this event.