5.1 Crafting Feedback Thread

**Elamys** · 12-06-2019 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by atek63

I enjoy the new skills and deleting obsolete. But honestly the game happens on Teamcraft. Ones you have found the macro you are just coming back to Ff14 for grinding. That's not really fun.

Plenty of people craft without using Teamcraft and the simulators. I don't use them because I don't like that website. If it's not fun to you to look up rotations then come back to craft...don't? Crafting is so much simpler now that there is very little "need" to use a simulator or look up a rotation. (Not that you "needed" to do that before.) Crafting is still fun. Actually the great thing is that there can now be multiple ways to complete a craft that are all roughly equal in time investment.

**NanaWiloh** · 12-07-2019 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by Elamys

Plenty of people craft without using Teamcraft and the simulators. I don't use them because I don't like that website. If it's not fun to you to look up rotations then come back to craft...don't? Crafting is so much simpler now that there is very little "need" to use a simulator or look up a rotation. (Not that you "needed" to do that before.) Crafting is still fun. Actually the great thing is that there can now be multiple ways to complete a craft that are all roughly equal in time investment.

Very little need for you not everyone else.

**Elamys** · 12-07-2019 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Very little need for you not everyone else.

And that's fine. What I'm saying is that if you don't find it fun to go to Teamcraft and look up a rotation then you don't have to.

**Maeka** · 12-07-2019 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Elamys

And that's fine. What I'm saying is that if you don't find it fun to go to Teamcraft and look up a rotation then you don't have to.

Maybe people didn't want to have to go look up a rotation?

It was just over-complicated before. Not hard per se, just a ridiculous amount of number crunching and calculations and all of that. I don't really think that's what average crafting needed to be. I could understand Star-crafting needing that sort of thing, but normal crafting shouldn't need freaking macros. You should be able to just learn a basic rotation and click the buttons yourself without having to go through 30-step processes, worrying about having your numbers just right, etc.

It's like... adding Extreme Primal difficulty to a 4-man MSQ dungeon. It doesn't belong there.

I'm glad they changed it from what it was before so I can just log on and click buttons to craft instead of clicking a macro and go make a sandwich.

**Elamys** · 12-08-2019 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by Maeka

Maybe people didn't want to have to go look up a rotation?

I agree with you completely but the person I responded to initially was complaining that crafting "happens on Teamcraft" and that's not the case and has never been the case. You don't need to use Teamcraft if you don't want to. You have never, at any point of crafting in this game, needed to use Teamcraft to be a crafter if you didn't want to.

You have never "needed" to sit down and do calculations or whatever if you didn't want to, you could still figure out a rotation through experimentation and learning how the abilities interacted. I have never used macros and I'm terrible at math but I learned a rotation in Heavensward and then Stormblood through experimentation. It was not the easy route but it was fun for me because I didn't want to just copy someone else's rotation or use a simulator. I hated Rath's rotation and refused to use it, so I made it work. Was it "as good" as Rath's? Maybe not, but I made tons of HQ starred items by the time the expansion ended.

But now, crafting is so simplified that I think very few people should be at a point where they can't make heads or tails of it without the help of a simulator.

If you prefer to use the simulator or use someone else's rotations that is perfectly fine. But if you just don't like the idea of doing that, well, then great! You don't have to, and it's foolish to pretend like crafting is so broken that you "need" an outside website after the changes. It may not be as easy, you'll probably have to invest some gil, but if you just really don't want to use a website or outside tool, then put in the effort and figure out a rotation.

I think people are misunderstanding what I am saying. The changes were very good, but don't complain that you need to use a website to enjoy crafting, because you don't, and never needed to.

Also, even if you do use the simulator, you should know how your abilities interact and what does what anyways even if you use a macro, if you intend on being a very serious crafter.

**Maeka** · 12-09-2019 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Elamys

-snip-

To each their own.

I found HW and even SB to be way too confusing, way too much button bloat to really make sense of how exactly to push the numbers to the ridiculous numbers the game expected you to do without getting lucky with Good/Excellent procs. The few things I did make and actually got HQs, I was only able to do so with lucky procs.

**Liam_Harper** · 12-10-2019 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Maeka

I don't really think that's what average crafting needed to be. I could understand Star-crafting needing that sort of thing, but normal crafting shouldn't need freaking macros. You should be able to just learn a basic rotation and click the buttons yourself without having to go through 30-step processes, worrying about having your numbers just right, etc.

Wasn't it exactly like that in Stormblood though? Normal crafting never needed a macro. It was Inner Quiet, Steady Hand, 4-5 Prudent, Manip II, Steady II, a few more Prudent, a Brygots finisher, Brand/Name Of and you're done. The new system hasn't simplified that much, it simply pruned off the other skills you rarely use (which is a good thing).

30+ step processes were for the high end Starred crafts which you admit you understand needing that.

The Normal crafting is fine. The issue is the requirements for the Starred crafting are massively reduced. That's what we're complaining is too easy. Not crafting as an entirety. I'm glad you're enjoying regular crafts and hope that stays for you.

Originally Posted by Maeka

I'm glad they changed it from what it was before so I can just log on and click buttons to craft instead of clicking a macro and go make a sandwich.

That's exactly what crafting is now. 1 macro can last from 70-80. There's no incentive not to use one.

I think what saddens me most is the community interaction and discussion has dropped significantly. The DoH forums used to be full of posts, threads and discussion, even a month or two into a patch. The 2 star items in Stormblood had countless pages of theorycraft with all the big crafters sharing ideas, guides, rotations and melds.

Now it's like it just died after a week from Ishgard and we mainly just argue over what the difficulty should be. Only 6 threads down from the top on this board and the last posts are from last month.
For Starred crafts, there are no rotations to discuss, we cracked it day one. No melds matter, just bung in cheap materia. Food, tea? Just buy vendor NQ. Mats? All accessible. So we don't interact anymore. That's not a sign of healthy, successful content.

**Solarra** · 12-10-2019 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I think what saddens me most is the community interaction and discussion has dropped significantly.

I noticed that too and it is sad and a little worrying.

I posted this in another thread but I think it's relevant to this discussion:
If I need a book or a second monitor to relieve the tedium then I start questioning why I'm bothering to play at all and that's the point I'm at with crafting right now.

I appreciate the recent changes have got people crafting who never enjoyed it in the past, but I do wonder how many will stick with it long-term. It's much easier now but essentially, it's pretty much the same. If you found crafting tedious before, I think you're still going to find it tedious, once the excitement of levelling and getting to endgame wears off.
The discussions on this board that Liam mentioned were all part of the fun. Now endgame crafting has been made so easy, there really isn't anything to discuss; people rarely ask for help in-game, either. So, while there might be a lot more people crafting since 5.2 it actually feels less social.

Crafting is niche in most games, and FFXIV used to offer a more in-depth experience than any other. I do understand the desire to broaden its appeal but I feel they've gone so far with the simplification that they're in danger of losing that depth and alienating those of us who enjoyed crafting as it was.

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