Thread: 5.1 Crafting Feedback Thread

Originally Posted by Callinon

It was always easy. It got less complicated. That's not the same thing.

I think a better term is "less tedious".

It was always easy, but there's less hassle and less tedium involved. It's more smooth and streamlined.

Originally Posted by Elamys

Plenty of people craft without using Teamcraft and the simulators. I don't use them because I don't like that website. If it's not fun to you to look up rotations then come back to craft...don't? Crafting is so much simpler now that there is very little "need" to use a simulator or look up a rotation. (Not that you "needed" to do that before.) Crafting is still fun. Actually the great thing is that there can now be multiple ways to complete a craft that are all roughly equal in time investment.

^^
I'm one of these kinds of players too.

I just wanna log onto the game, and figure crap out for myself, and do my own stuff, DIY style. But the old crafting system was just too tedious, too many buttons involved, and looking up a rotation was near-required because I didn't really feel like sitting down and running all kinds of theorycrafting. I wanna do actual crafting, not theorycrafting. Now, after 5.1, the buttons make sense in what they do, we don't have 5 buttons that all do the same thing, yadda yadda. It has really gotten me to enjoy crafting.

All throughout Stormblood, I never crafted much of anything until the Namazu tribe was added. Then I got everything to Lv70 and.... didn't craft anything.

ShB got released, and I again set it on the back burner with a "... someday" type mentality.

Then 5.1 hit and today I just got the last two on Lv80 and I'm on my way to making Lv80 tools, already got BSM, CRP, and MIN done. I have done... way, WAY more crafting Post-5.1 then I did in the entirety of Heavensward and Stormblood, not counting Beast Tribe quests.

I would say that's a big success, considering Yoshi-P's goal was to get more casual players enjoying the crafting game.

EDIT: Heck, the day 5.1 came out? I did more crafting in that one single day than I did during the entirety of HW and SB, again not counting the beast tribes.

The teamcraft simulator just to be clear can be used to develope your own rotations. You dont need to use the Rotation solver its completely optional. I see it this way you cannot use it and develope your own rotation while wasting, time,gil and mats. Or use it and develope your own rotation wasting only time while saving gil and mats.

Crafting was too overwhelming and frightening for newer players back in ARR and HW, I can understand that. However, for those people who preferred a challenge (in this case, It should be master recipes) they are denied that challenge and cannot ever get that back. This happened once SB arrived/4.0. Rotations could much more easily be fitted into macros than ever before, as all it consisted of mostly, were Prudent Touches. Guaranteed touches that have no consequence to the craft.

And again, this would be fine for regular crafting, but master recipes shouldn’t have to go through this. When you nuke an entire system’s difficulty, (can we please not go into the RNG =/= difficultly thing for just this once and just bear with me...) you effectively get rid of what made it so unique in the first place. Yes, I know high end crafters could set prices high on the market. Yes, I know you wanted to be apart of it. Yes, it was time consuming. Yes, it was unfair. But most games have an RNG system set in place to keep items/content very rare and flashy. That’s the only way it can work. If you remove RNG and make everything guaranteed to work with no thought, the content and items set in place become very meaningless and not as fun to work towards.

Not everyone likes not having a special endgame goal. Most people enjoy challenges and the rewards that come along with it. Final Fantasy XIV once had a unique crafting system, but the developers had to remove what made it so unique, in order to reel in more subscribers. It’s really sad they chose that route, but so be it. I assume the “Casual and Hardcore” thread influenced them to make hard Ishgard recipes in 5.2, but nothing will make them bring crafting to the way it once was, or similar to it. It’ll always be a copy/paste macro thing, It’ll always be far too easy, and it’ll always be minimal in terms of reward. FFXIV currently rules this mmo generation, but once the next mmo generation begins in the next few years, I guarantee something else will be on top. And whatever that is, I’m sure it’s crafting system will not be tailored towards minimalistic effort like how this game is.

This game’s crafting community consists of people arguing over RNG =/= Difficultly, and casual players that often request for QoL updates that really affect its overall difficulty. It’s just bad compared to how it used to be. Fighting, arguing, laziness, it’s crazy and really sad.

Sorry for being long winded.

Originally Posted by Nandrolone

Crafting was too overwhelming and frightening for newer players back in ARR and HW, I can understand that. However, for those people who preferred a challenge (in this case, It should be master recipes) they are denied that challenge and cannot ever get that back. This happened once SB arrived/4.0. Rotations could much more easily be fitted into macros than ever before, as all it consisted of mostly, were Prudent Touches. Guaranteed touches that have no consequence to the craft.

And again, this would be fine for regular crafting, but master recipes shouldn’t have to go through this. When you nuke an entire system’s difficulty, (can we please not go into the RNG =/= difficultly thing for just this once and just bear with me...) you effectively get rid of what made it so unique in the first place. Yes, I know high end crafters could set prices high on the market. Yes, I know you wanted to be apart of it. Yes, it was time consuming. Yes, it was unfair. But most games have an RNG system set in place to keep items/content very rare and flashy. That’s the only way it can work. If you remove RNG and make everything guaranteed to work with no thought, the content and items set in place become very meaningless and not as fun to work towards.

Not everyone likes not having a special endgame goal. Most people enjoy challenges and the rewards that come along with it. Final Fantasy XIV once had a unique crafting system, but the developers had to remove what made it so unique, in order to reel in more subscribers. It’s really sad they chose that route, but so be it. I assume the “Casual and Hardcore” thread influenced them to make hard Ishgard recipes in 5.2, but nothing will make them bring crafting to the way it once was, or similar to it. It’ll always be a copy/paste macro thing, It’ll always be far too easy, and it’ll always be minimal in terms of reward. FFXIV currently rules this mmo generation, but once the next mmo generation begins in the next few years, I guarantee something else will be on top. And whatever that is, I’m sure it’s crafting system will not be tailored towards minimalistic effort like how this game is.

This game’s crafting community consists of people arguing over RNG =/= Difficultly, and casual players that often request for QoL updates that really affect its overall difficulty. It’s just bad compared to how it used to be. Fighting, arguing, laziness, it’s crazy and really sad.

Sorry for being long winded.

Most games dont spit in your face and crap all over your efforts either like the old crafting system. Excalibur II in FF9 is difficult to get and there is no rng involved with getting it. Its you and your knowledge of the game vs a 12 hr time limit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8h5b_vF_VA time index 5:47-9:07

Watch it through that time index and you will see why RNG is despised in crafting. Rng has its place but when it comes to crafting it should not be what determines if you are successful or not. Crafting already requires a good deal of time and effort making that effort feel worthless with stupid amounts of rng is not fun.

@NanaWiloh

I’m not saying I like RNG. In fact, we can all agree it gets us really annoyed and angry often. However, just the very fact that the developer team of FFXIV doesn’t even bother to try and make master recipes or even ishgard 5.2 recipes more skill based, just goes to show you the future of the game.

As for effort, no, it really does not require that much effort. I can get a brand new account right now. (Yes, I’ve done this) Give me 20 million gil and give me 1.5 weeks - 2 weeks, I’ll get all crafters to 80 in no time. Back then, 2 weeks was not enough time for that, also, the exp gain wasn’t so over powered as it is now. You really can’t argue that the time and effort spent is much less compared to how it used to be. Haha, “argue”. Not to mention buying Gil is much easier now.

That brings me to my previous point. All this game’s crafter community does nowadays is just argue about RNG, difficulty, time/effort, and whether or not things should be hardcore or not. It’s honestly really sad it’s gotten to this point. Never ending conversations over the same thing with no resolution. Fighting, arguing, silly hardcore/casual roast sessions, and “I need a macro” threads.

That is why I hope the next generation’s MMO is something that is not made by square Enix. And if it is, I would hope it is not anything directed by Yoshida for these very reasons. Preferably by people that have similar mindsets as the people who made FFXI.

Originally Posted by Nandrolone

@NanaWiloh

I’m not saying I like RNG. In fact, we can all agree it gets us really annoyed and angry often. However, just the very fact that the developer team of FFXIV doesn’t even bother to try and make master recipes or even ishgard 5.2 recipes more skill based, just goes to show you the future of the game.

As for effort, no, it really does not require that much effort. I can get a brand new account right now. (Yes, I’ve done this) Give me 20 million gil and give me 1.5 weeks - 2 weeks, I’ll get all crafters to 80 in no time. Back then, 2 weeks was not enough time for that, also, the exp gain wasn’t so over powered as it is now. You really can’t argue that the time and effort spent is much less compared to how it used to be. Haha, “argue”. Not to mention buying Gil is much easier now.

That brings me to my previous point. All this game’s crafter community does nowadays is just argue about RNG, difficulty, time/effort, and whether or not things should be hardcore or not. It’s honestly really sad it’s gotten to this point. Never ending conversations over the same thing with no resolution. Fighting, arguing, silly hardcore/casual roast sessions, and “I need a macro” threads.

That is why I hope the next generation’s MMO is something that is not made by square Enix. And if it is, I would hope it is not anything directed by Yoshida for these very reasons. Preferably by people that have similar mindsets as the people who made FFXI.

Do it without the 20 million no having people farm for you or offer help. No quick and easy road use only what you earn yourself you want the old days then do it like the old days. When I leveled up crafting I farmed my mats as often as I could rarely if ever asked for help rarely spent gil, too this day I have put less then 4 million into leveling crafting. So when I put forth time and effort to get the mats for high end gear I want to be rewarded not slapped across by the game and told try again.