Thread: Summoner is doing too much in 5.10

Originally Posted by Miminming

If you want to consider balance around ultimate, raise shouldnt have tax on it, you wont be able to clear in a situation where caster need to do raise, especially when the ultimate is still revelant.

If you don't want a raise tax, advocate for it's removal.

It's that simple.

Originally Posted by xxPheNoMeNa

That statement is the furthest thing from the truth, and anyone with extensive experience clearing ultimate would agree with me. Ultimate, at least with last expansion, never had harsh DPS checks. They were designed as mechanic checks. Raise is extremely valuable in ultimate, and I've had several clears that came off the back of caster raise existing to recover from mechanical mistakes (especially when it's a healer death and the other healer has to focus on healing during raid wide damage).

When did you get your clear? Is it within the patch they come out? If you clear it in later patch (even just .1 patch above) dps check get lamer, either that or your group good good dps or my group is not as good as i though (i remember 0.2% so many time...)

Originally Posted by Miminming

When did you get your clear? Is it within the patch they come out? If you clear it in later patch (even just .1 patch above) dps check get lamer, either that or your group good good dps or my group is not as good as i though (i remember 0.2% so many time...)

My first UWU clear was 9 days after release, and I have 20 or so uploaded clears (I have a few more not uploaded) before you had access to better gear. UCoB I wasn't subbed when it actually released but I did clear it (and multiple times after) before 345 gear was available, so I still had the same item level as anyone else in 4.1, and even the SMN nerfs on top of it.

And if you don't believe me, then here:
https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/...&mode=detailed
https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/...&mode=detailed

Originally Posted by xxPheNoMeNa

My first UWU clear was 9 days after release, and I have 20 or so uploaded clears (I have a few more not uploaded) before you had access to better gear. UCoB I wasn't subbed when it actually released but I did clear it (and multiple times after) before 345 gear was available, so I still had the same item level as anyone else in 4.1, and even the SMN nerfs on top of it.

And if you don't believe me, then here:
https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/...&mode=detailed
https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/...&mode=detailed

Not sure why this is even in this thread.

On the contrary... Summoner seems really powerful of late. I'm all for the if the class is more difficult it should do more damage but it having a raise, party buff and small heal for party members. Black mage mains pain is real.

Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura

Not sure why this is even in this thread.

On the contrary... Summoner seems really powerful of late. I'm all for the if the class is more difficult it should do more damage but it having a raise, party buff and small heal for party members. Black mage mains pain is real.

The buff is only like 200-250 rdps. The heal is laughable. Almost all of the contention is about Raise.

Originally Posted by xxPheNoMeNa

My first UWU clear was 9 days after release, and I have 20 or so uploaded clears (I have a few more not uploaded) before you had access to better gear. UCoB I wasn't subbed when it actually released but I did clear it (and multiple times after) before 345 gear was available, so I still had the same item level as anyone else in 4.1, and even the SMN nerfs on top of it.

And if you don't believe me, then here:
https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/...&mode=detailed
https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/...&mode=detailed

No i believe you but if you clear 9 days after release it mean you are like top of top, which provably not the best data to be taken into account on balancing.

As for removing raise, believe me most caster agree (probably not the casual one), though i prefer adding res to blm with 2 min cooldown on all caster raise.

Originally Posted by Miminming

No i believe you but if you clear 9 days after release it mean you are like top of top, which provably not the best data to be taken into account on balancing.

As for removing raise, believe me most caster agree (probably not the casual one), though i prefer adding res to blm with 2 min cooldown on all caster raise.

Don't trust her opinion about the job! She knows it too well!

I kid, but honestly the top of the top should be what we look at for numeric balancing, with lower percentiles (within a given set of conditions, such as no deaths, etc) then being looked at for their drop-off from those more perfect parses, as to find further imbalances in ease of play or identify QoL issues that may be removed or just accepted by the time one reaches the highest tiers of play. Those other parts are hugely important, but their interest should be aimed at approaching those higher percentages, with only the top of the top being the gold standard for what a job should be capable of on the whole.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Don't trust her opinion about the job! She knows it too well!

I kid, but honestly the top of the top should be what we look at for numeric balancing, with lower percentiles (within a given set of conditions, such as no deaths, etc) then being looked at for their drop-off from those more perfect parses, as to find further imbalances in ease of play or identify QoL issues that may be removed or just accepted by the time one reaches the highest tiers of play. Those other parts are hugely important, but their interest should be aimed at approaching those higher percentages, with only the top of the top being the gold standard for what a job should be capable of on the whole.

High as in 90-95 percentile is good but theres a reason people excluded 99 and max parse...

Mch needs more