Thread: Revelations from Patch 5.1

So someone said something earlier about Halric

about Halric saying "Nect... Al..." you don't think he's referring to his favourite food, the nectarine, which is poisoned? What if this story is going to get even darker? Like oh gods, what if he wants to end it all, and he eats it, and Alisae finds him too late.

Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

So someone said something earlier about Halric

about Halric saying "Nect... Al..." you don't think he's referring to his favourite food, the nectarine, which is poisoned? What if this story is going to get even darker? Like oh gods, what if he wants to end it all, and he eats it, and Alisae finds him too late.

About Halric:

It could of course go into that dark direction but we do know that the nectarine is also simply his favorite food. So maybe after all the time feeling something again he just wishes to eat something he really liked. Or he simply remembered that Alisaie went out to get him one.

Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

More Tempering thoughts...

While the Convocation of Thirteen members were Tempered, that is not true for the majority of Ancients. Especially those Ancients that gave up their lives to summon Hydaelyn. I have a very hard time seeing the Ancients trying not to untemper the Convocation of Thirteen if they found out they were Tempered. I have a very hard time seeing our Ancient self not trying to fix the Tempering problem, given that from the sound of it, we worked with the Convocation of Thirteen for some time. Which begs the question as to why the unsundered Ascians are all still Tempered I think.

There's two more things I find concerning about how Tempering is likened to the people who are turning into Sin Eaters. The first is that the description of both people turning into Sin Eaters and how Tempering works only takee the question of aether elemental imbalance into account. But we know of several primals who have Tempered people who have no known elemental quality (Lakshimi for example). What are we supposed to do with the Eikons who really are primarily concepts and have no links to aspected aether? Even Zodiark and Hydaelyn are described more in terms of what they do then what kind of aether they are made up of.

The second is that the people turning into Sin Eaters actually want to be fixed, while people who are already Tempered do not. It sounds more like the people turning into Sin Eaters are more like people who are close to being Tempered, but aren't yet. My gut feeling is that actual Sin Eaters are more like people who are Tempered. Which begs the question if there is a way to fix beings who have already turned into Sin Eaters... My gut feeling says no... but we'll see... The flip-side of this argument is that Voidsent should by all rights have overly aspected aether as well... but for all that Voidsent gobble up the unaspected aether of the Source, they never seem to become any less Voidsent. But Eden seems to be tackling this side of the idea too.

Also... Ga Bu has always been a weird case. Since there's no evidence he is even Tempered by Titan. Him being mute after seeing his parents be all but killed in front of him makes as much sense as him being mute because he got Tempered. So I can see Alisae's hope of him becoming "untempered" turning out not to be needed at all.

About your points on tempering

I am also not really sure if tempering is the same as being affected by Light. It makes sense that too much Light can be changed back by starting the aether again since Light just simply stops the flow and just like with Eden you need something to start it again.

Light cant be the reason imo tempering happens. None of the tempered people we see behave like the people soon turning into sin eaters. A lot of the tempered people are active while those affected by Light are barely even able to move. Just look at Zodiark and him being seemingly Darkness. Why should he temper by using Light? Also over all the time unlike the people with Light they did not turn into outright mindless monsters. Heck only those that get too much tempered turn into strange beings, most of the others are still the same just with the believe to serve their new master.

So either the other elementals like water and fire can do the same thing too or all of those that temper somehow also use Light but unlike on the first people wont just turn into nasty monsters over time...which kinda would point against Light being the one that does it..

I wonder if maybe they just brought that up and later when Alisaie tries it out on the source they will find out that its not the same. Or maybe they find out that Ga Bu is the only that can be saved that way because he is a special case.

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

this will not be the first time Warriors of Light are created by the Ascians. As revealed back in 5.0 through the Final Job Role Quest, Arbert and his companions are made into Warriors of Light because of Ascians manipulating events to make certain they become Warriors of Light as part of their plan to cause the First to return to the Source.

And don't forget: the meaning of light and darkness in the first is the opposite of their meaning in the source.

Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

More Tempering thoughts...

While the Convocation of Thirteen members were Tempered, that is not true for the majority of Ancients. Especially those Ancients that gave up their lives to summon Hydaelyn. I have a very hard time seeing the Ancients trying not to untemper the Convocation of Thirteen if they found out they were Tempered. I have a very hard time seeing our Ancient self not trying to fix the Tempering problem, given that from the sound of it, we worked with the Convocation of Thirteen for some time. Which begs the question as to why the unsundered Ascians are all still Tempered I think.

There's two more things I find concerning about how Tempering is likened to the people who are turning into Sin Eaters. The first is that the description of both people turning into Sin Eaters and how Tempering works only takee the question of aether elemental imbalance into account. But we know of several primals who have Tempered people who have no known elemental quality (Lakshimi for example). What are we supposed to do with the Eikons who really are primarily concepts and have no links to aspected aether? Even Zodiark and Hydaelyn are described more in terms of what they do then what kind of aether they are made up of.

The second is that the people turning into Sin Eaters actually want to be fixed, while people who are already Tempered do not. It sounds more like the people turning into Sin Eaters are more like people who are close to being Tempered, but aren't yet. My gut feeling is that actual Sin Eaters are more like people who are Tempered. Which begs the question if there is a way to fix beings who have already turned into Sin Eaters... My gut feeling says no... but we'll see... The flip-side of this argument is that Voidsent should by all rights have overly aspected aether as well... but for all that Voidsent gobble up the unaspected aether of the Source, they never seem to become any less Voidsent. But Eden seems to be tackling this side of the idea too.

Also... Ga Bu has always been a weird case. Since there's no evidence he is even Tempered by Titan. Him being mute after seeing his parents be all but killed in front of him makes as much sense as him being mute because he got Tempered. So I can see Alisae's hope of him becoming "untempered" turning out not to be needed at all.

Honestly, I see at least three routes that could be used to explain why the Ancients never dealt with the Convocation:

- They didn't know: Any particular reason why the Convocation would tell folks that they were enslaved to Zodiark? ESPECIALLY if those people had the ability to untemper them? No, the Convocation just went about their business, getting Zo to fix the world, with no one aware that they were fanatical Zo groupies in the first place. I'm sure they had all kinds of honeyed arguments explaining why each sacrifice to Zodiark was necessary...

- They knew, but accepted it: The Convocation was getting the job done. The world was being saved. Things were so horrible that the average Joe was willing to accept pretty much ANYTHING if it would save their skins. It's even possible that mass Tempering was PART of the plan to save the world - direct mental control to stop the uncontrolled Creation. The Convocation were only the first, and most Ancients lined up voluntarily afterwards WANTING to be Tempered as well, if doing so would save the world - and those that didn't line up? They were the Dissenters, who eventually summoned Hydaelyn.

- They knew, and didn't accept it, but were unable to implement a solution: There's lots of possible reasons they might not have been able to unTemper the Convocation. The Convocation could have been under Zodiark's direct protection; he was active and present, after all, and human wave tactics (necessary to even REACH the folks they're trying to unTemper) might not work as well against a Primal of his magnitude as they do against a Primal like Titan (basically, anyone who got close enough to attempt a deTempering would be Tempered themselves long before getting the chance, and thereby lose the desire to do so). Another possibility is that they were not able to work out a solution. It's not as far-fetched as you might think. Souls are a very poorly understood phenomenon to the Ancients, as we learned from the Emet-Selch Tale from the Shadows. Mortals, for all Emet-Selch regards them with disdain, have done AMAZING things with souls, including cobbling intelligent, living souls together from pure Aether (see the Anima quests). Plus, mortals have had many thousand years to study Tempering and its effects; it's unclear how long a period of time there was between Zodiark's summoning and Hydaelyn's, but it could well be much shorter than that. It's not outrageous to think that mortals have the advantage, here, in solving the Tempering problem. Another possibility is that they had the means and the desire, but there were simply too few non-Tempered left to stand a prayer of making any headway in curing the rest (possibly due to mass-Tempering being part of the plan to bring Creation under control). Their best bet was to remain under the radar, banding together in secrecy to hatch Project Hydaelyn.

Bottom line, I have no issues whatsoever with the idea that a couple of mortals were able to solve this particular problem, whether the Ancients knew it was a problem or not, whether the Ancients came up with a solution themselves or not.

As for elemental alignment being a necessary part of curing the Tempered, and some Primals being non-Elemental - perhaps they are ALL elemental, even the ones where the element is not obvious. You used Lakshmi as an example - I'd peg her as Light aspected, given her apparent desire for folks to be calm, rest, and stay content with things the way they are - in short, stasis. Given that this cure is being modified from one used to treat the Light-touched, her thralls could be among the easiest to cure. Bahamut, of course, is Darkness, given that was the aspect of his Calamity. It's possible that being completely opposite from Light, Darkness-tempered simply cannot be cured by the same means, but the point is pretty much moot given that all Bahamut's thralls are dead, as is Bahamut himself.

Basically, if it every actually becomes a story element, the writers can easily spin a storyline-consistent way to handle the thralls of these indeterminate Primals, as well. As I mentioned in my post a few pages back, though, I'm guessing the story is not going to go that way. I have the nagging fear that Ga Bu will prove to be an exception, and that most Tempered will be uncurable. I was really hoping to see an actual cure on the table, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Status quo is much easier to work with, and while the writers have done a few impressively bold moves, I don't think this is going to be one of them.

Originally Posted by Hainiryun

While it's not exactly the biggest deal out of everything that's come up this patch I did come across a little something that doesn't seem to have brought up here just yet; So I was wandering around Lyhe Mheg after the first rank up and I found an interesting pair of dolls off towards the edge of the area.

Feo Ul has been making trips to the Source for a while, now, and it's quite likely that stories of the Tonberries came back with her. They are kind of adorable, in addition to being horrifying - which is pretty much right up the Pixies' alley. XD