Thread: Revelations from Patch 5.1

Originally Posted by ShadowMeowth

*playing The Final Countdown*

True, though I placed the blame on both. It was not my intention to spin Emet's actions: it was wrong. I have to say, though, that even if I get why everyone got mad at him about the not-really-alive thing, it is basically humanity trampling on ants, so we are hardly the ones to judge. If ants were to judge us, our point of view would be to them the same as Emet's. But I digress.

The whole Vauthry thing reminds me of some sort of tempering and was both temperer and tempered. What was exactly what allowed Vauthry to control the sin eaters? I mean, sure, he is a Lightwarden, but he is both sin eater and man: perhaps the difference was that Vauthry had a will of his own and that gave him power. And he was born like this, not transformed like Titania and Tesleen. The soul is broken when you transform into a sin eater, right? Then did Vauthry manage to keep his soul intact when he transformed into Innocence? Those are interesting questions.

This is, again, a matter of how exactly tempering affects people and how accountable for their actions they are. Vauthry might be a casualty. The Ascians are this as well. And maybe even us. All of this roots in Hydaelyn and Zodiark tempering the Ancients, and all of this was glossed over in 5.1. I assume they are saving the big guns for later.

Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

I was also surprised at the lack of discussion about how

crazy Vauthry Sr. (or whatever his name was) was. You'd think his right-hand man would have noticed some signs of it, particularly in the lead-up to Vauthry taking the reins himself.

Ten, nine, eight

"Man and sin eater both" = man corrupted by a Sin Eater, though. It was a transformation, Emet-Selch simply did it while Vauthry was still in the womb. Vauthry would still have been a full Hume, Sin Eater corruption wouldn't change that part, though the corruption clearly did change him physically as well as mentally. Humes don't get to be 15-20 feet tall naturally, it actually really rattled my immersion no one ever mentioned that lmao. In the end, Titania was the same situation, a living being overtaken by a Lightwarden. In Japan, they and Vauthry even shared a speech pattern meant to indicate they were "off".

The WoL's soul was already being described as in real danger from corruption even before Innocence, and that was with the blessing of Hydaelyn protecting them. Vauthry would have no chance resisting it at all. Perhaps Emet-Selch somehow managed to pace the corruption, but it was still there, and by the time we encounter Vauthry, he was already at the end of it. And the Ascians were pulling his strings in other ways, see the Cardinal Virtues.

Lesser Sin Eaters were likened to an insect colony acting on behalf of its queen. They were ultimately following the power of the Lightwarden (see Holminster Switch and Philia )--and the Lightwarden's instincts were funneled through a corrupted parody of Vauthry.

It seems a bit of a stretch to compare what the Ascians are doing to trampling an anthill, when discussing the bodily autonomy of a mother and child, no less. And while the theorycrafting on Tempering is interesting, there is still one very large difference between Vauthry and Emet-Selch: Vauthry was never given a choice if he wanted to be "Tempered" or not. The people of The First were never given a choice if they wanted to sacrifice themselves, as Zodiark was summoned by willing sacrifices. Emet-Selch was able to choose his path with free will, fully aware of the consequences it could bring to be tempered by an Elder Primal (although he said he would still have done everything he's done regardless of tempering).

@Berteaux - I know, it was so frustrating! It seems really unlikely that someone who would do that would show no outward signs of callousness, he clearly had no problem with casualties--and apparently the citizenry was unhappy enough they were being stirred against him? Huh?

I don't want to believe Eulmore is just an afterthought like Ala Mhigo seemed to be in Stormblood, but it really does seem like that is the case. I've seen more consistency in a Saturday morning cartoon. :s
(Also wow letting that one lady who tried to have her maid murdered blame her acts on "Vauthry's society" was just a bit much lmao)