Thread: Revelations from Patch 5.1

Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

Even those of us who have played NieR: Automana before have no idea where this raid is going. Yoko Taro loves to throw 3rd Act curve-balls at his audience and right when you think you have a decent idea of what's going on, he'll pull the rug out from under you and hit you in the emotional gut. Simply put, the only thing those of us who have played Yoko Taro's games before are expecting is to be surprised and watch the story turn out not to be what we thought it was.

As much as we know about the different characters in their own games, we know very, very little about them in this game. It's not like the Return to Ivalice Raids where Matsumoto likes giving tons of exposition to the player. Yoko Taro likes to drop players into the thick of things and slowly reveal more of the setting and back-story through datalouges and scraps of left-over information about how the world used to be. So if you're confused about what is going on, that's normal. We all are. And we probably won't know what is actually going on until the last raid either...

It's not so much confusion but more like it feels super out of place in the setting. It feels artificial instead of natural, if you pardon the robot pun. Ivalice worked in the setting, I can believe it exists in FFXIV's world. This doesn't, at least not just with this first raid. We'll see how the next two go.

Character law, obey the law ~

I have a theory concerning the setting of the YoRHa raid, but this is Yoko Taro we are talking about. He would not be the mad genius he is if he were easily predictable. His narrative building method consists of planning how stories end, so we will probably be blind until the final raid.

And I keep saying that "Ardbert" is not another shard of us, because does that mean that all our shards have his appearance? That seems nonsensical to me. No, I feel that is what we are led to believe, that he is a Warrior of Light from another shard, but in truth there is more.

As for the white-robed figure seemingly leading Zenos to hunt Zodiark, welp. Unukalhai now says that Elidibus' concern for equilibrium more than once clashes with other Ascians' methods. I wonder if Elidibus considers that for Hydaelyn to be defeated, Zodiark has to go as well. That would certainly be a way to achieve equilibrium.

So anyone know the difference between the Two paths in Nier Raid storyline.

Path 1: Trust 2P

Path 2: Don't Trust 2P

As I said before, knowing Yoko Taro the choice may (*cough*will*cough*) determine the ending and differences in cutscenes we see in the Nier Raid Storyline.

PS Don't forget to go into Exploration mode of the Raid area to find collections and look into areas you could not enter during the Raid.

There is even a room full of....

Dead 2Bs.

which I can assume is part of the hints on what is going on in the Nier Storyline like the Collectable intels found in Exploration Mode of the Raid Zone.

Edwin lalalala stupid 10 char.

from what I've read the difference aren't that big at the moment. It doesnt change the outcome so far and all it does is do some minor changes to the journal entries

https://twinfinite.net/2019/10/ffxiv...nogg-answered/

Also it doesnt mean that later quests wont be different due to the paths chosen either.

Nier

They really have to give us massive amount of lore and explanations later for me to like this raid...

I was not a fan of Ivalice raid either but at least tried from the very start to make it feel like it belongs to the planet. We knew that Dalmasca and thus these cities existed and they are tied in with Garlemald and its rebellions. They showed us how Garlemald behaves, gave us a glimps of the lifes of Garlean people that also dont agree with them and tried to make us like the characters or at least understand them. From the start to finish it had many cutscenes and it looked visually quite well. I also liked a lot of the music. Some bosses even were tied in with the story and could create an emotional impact.

Nier did nothing like that to me. I had not played the Ivalice games either which is why I am too not a whole fan of that raid but at least I got the feeling that it could fit into he game. Nothing in that first part of the raid screamed to me like it was meant to fit into the world.

Somehow they are talking a different language there (which the WoL also cant understand even with the echo) which makes it doubtful that the Ancients had anything to do with it..at the same time the machines, the androids and the text is in a language that even the dwarves can understand.

The visuals are not great. Its an ugly factory with ugly robots. And other than the last fight, none of the music was something I liked, heck the one that played when we traveled through it again really got on my nerves after a bit of time.

The boss fights left me completely cold. Of course a lot of boss fights in raids are like that but even the visuals and the fights itself were not that fun either. Its just against lots of robots and later one android boy. As someone that did not play NIer nothing in there touched me.

And the worst for me was the lore, the story, and the characters. The most part of the story before the raid was to get the key from a dwarf that is probably not even important to it. (I also found it interesting how the twins ran away from that fight yet are completely fine to go with us into the raid) There is imo nothing great about that. The part in the mines were funny (the bombs) but still kinda lackluster and the introduction to 2P felt the same. Her character is kina non-existent and stayed that way until the end of the raid. For me it also makes no sense why this raid is there...In times were people have flying mounts and airships there is no reason on why this factory was not found. And if it was suddenly just there...shouldnt the dwarves have noticed anything? Did none of those that are in the mines ever thought about opening the door? How was it even possible for 2P and the robots to come out of it? And if it all just breaks down to: We were teleported here by something then I find that to be lame. I also cant see how we will get to our next destinations..will a portal appear and we will just go through? Or will they try to tell us that there is even more land hidden from plain sight?

The only really positive thing for me: The ability to go back in there and explore it and find informations about that place. Sadly even that had a bit of a negative thing too..the information we found just sounds like nothing. Like randoms thoughts and maybe it will mean something to those that played Nier but for me it was another disappointment..But I hope that they use something like that for future raids and dungeon..because if they did all that work just for an "out-of game" raid then I will be kinda angry..lore fans have wanted for a long time to have some more lore ingame and this could be a great way to bring it to us.

I really hope that the next raids can change my opinions on this but right now this on the same line as Omega..fanservice for other games..

Pixie tribe:

Right now this is probably the highlight for me in this patch. The story is awesome and heartwarming, the new playground is beautiful, dreamlike and has great music and I like the new characters. I am really looking forward to seeing more of that story and learning more about the other pixie.

Custom delivery:

So Eulmore needs to change and the first thing we do now is to keep the entertainment business open? In times when they still have to solve the problems of survival for the poor? I am a bit baffled with that..why would people even visit it when seemingly most villages fight against hunger? This does not sound like customers that want to give their money for such entertainment, especially since I am not even sure how these people have money at all..I would have liked it more if we had quests to directly help the people instead of keeping that business alive. (It could be a part of the quests but not the main one)

Originally Posted by Alleo

Custom delivery:

So Eulmore needs to change and the first thing we do now is to keep the entertainment business open? In times when they still have to solve the problems of survival for the poor? I am a bit baffled with that..why would people even visit it when seemingly most villages fight against hunger? This does not sound like customers that want to give their money for such entertainment, especially since I am not even sure how these people have money at all..I would have liked it more if we had quests to directly help the people instead of keeping that business alive. (It could be a part of the quests but not the main one)

There is a importance to it and a very big one if they want to keep up a good moral of the workforce.

A place for entertainment is helping people, even if you don't realize it yet, as there will always be a demand for a place that people can go after a nice hard day of work to relax and forget their worries for a moment before returning back to that work.

In a world where the only thing they can focus on now is to rebuild and resolve past issues now, there is little amount of places left that can provide them a place to relax from the memories and physical labor of rebuilding what their world has a left. It is still a depressing world and psychologically to keep their minds from getting too depressed during these times is a place of entertainment.

Keeping the Bee Hive running is important because it is literally the only place left on the First that acts as a place where people can rest from the days of long hard labor and constant depression of how little is left of their world now as they strive to rebuild from what little survived.

Maintaining a good mental Health is very important for the reconstruction of the First because if people can't sustain a good mental health, they are likely to fall into depression and it will become more difficult to rebuild what is left of the First which is why making the Bee Hive more accessable is important because that will be the place where workers go to recover from the mental stress they experience from their hard labor of rebuilding since not everyone can keep up a good mental state through knowing they did a good long days of hard work alone.

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

There is a importance to it and a very big one if they want to keep up a good moral of the workforce.

A place for entertainment is helping people, even if you don't realize it yet, as there will always be a demand for a place that people can go after a nice hard day of work to relax and forget their worries for a moment before returning back to that work.

In a world where the only thing they can focus on now is to rebuild and resolve past issues now, there is little amount of places left that can provide them a place to relax from the memories and physical labor of rebuilding what their world has a left. It is still a depressing world and psychologically to keep their minds from getting too depressed during these times is a place of entertainment.

Keeping the Bee Hive running is important because it is literally the only place left on the First that acts as a place where people can rest from the days of long hard labor and constant depression of how little is left of their world now as they strive to rebuild from what little survived.

Maintaining a good mental Health is very important for the reconstruction of the First because if people can't sustain a good mental health, they are likely to fall into depression and it will become more difficult to rebuild what is left of the First which is why making the Bee Hive more accessable is important because that will be the place where workers go to recover from the mental stress they experience from their hard labor of rebuilding since not everyone can keep up a good mental state through knowing they did a good long days of hard work alone.

I wouldn't say just for moral on it though that will play a part.

I'd also go along the lines of it generating revenue by Tourism. As it is Kai-Shirrs two friends were about to leave because there was no business to be had in there and I'm quite sure that a lot of other people would have too. It's not that bad of an idea either when it comes to it, soon when they get everything going strong they may end up building their own version of Costa Del Sol.

The money they are hoping to make by making the Bee a tourist attraction will help them greatly with imports. They will be able to import food, seeds and other materials that they aren't able to get to bring commerce and stability back to the place.

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

There is a importance to it and a very big one if they want to keep up a good moral of the workforce.

I know that its important to have businesses later but my problem is the time this is done.

This is right after they talked how the biggest problems in Eulmore are safety and something to eat. Of course you also need a place to relax but as we find out right away people cant even afford it.

So I at least would have liked it more if that delivery was more about the general problems of the people and helping them out with our goods, like we did with the princess in Stormblood and then one of the later quests or at the end we could then do something to give the buisness more to do. With these quests now we are only helping out the business and seeing how the Talos and things like that only started it just does not make sense to start there.

Originally Posted by KarstenS

Little wall of text.

This was a thing I did just wait for.

Remember our first talk to Elidibus in Patch 2.1? He talked about, if we ever would learn how powerful the echo really is, we would see, that we are not very different to the Ascians.



Not very surprising. As we lerned at the end of the Omega story line, the "natural language understanding" only will work for individuals with a soul.

Without the knowledge of the game, it is hard to know why it looks and feels like it does. You should definitively give NieR: Automata a try. It has one of the best stories I've played the last decade. After the desaster of Final Fantasy 15, NieR: Automata satisfied me in every way FF15 could not deliver.

About your points:

Hm maybe I remember it wrong but wasnt it more like: If we knew what he knew we would be on his side? For me it feels that maybe those with the echo are Amaurotine souls thus he believed that we would join his side if we knew about the tragedy of their race?

The problem with that is, that these robots spoke too and I am not sure if they have a soul (and if Androids in this world have one either) and we are perfectly able to read the text we found there. Text does not have a soul imo.

Maybe Omegas story was more about that echo gives us a chance to understand beings with soul that cant talk normally like Alpha but also works for any language at all as a translator.

I do not plan to play Nier and I really had hoped that the raid would be at least still be deeply enjoyable for those that have never played it. I mean I did not play many other FF games either yet I did enjoy the crystal tower raids. Maybe because they took their time to introduce the characters that are involved with this to us. Of course it can still happen but I am a bit sad how it was barely done at all. Dont need to explain everything but for those of us who dont know about 2P (and imo nobody knows about 2P because she too could be quite different to 2B from Nier) maybe at least make us care about her? She is just there and then stops working for now. It just would be nice if these purely fanservice raids would at least be more than that.