Why use a Dragoon or Monk when you can use a Warrior?

[Peptaru]

A response to a long post up at the top of page six, dread spike stops the one shot moves?! that's news to me. Here i see people use it and die to coincounter anyway....

[SirOleas]

It is impossible to perfectly balance jobs. It simply can't and shouldn't be attempted.
After you specialize into a job, nobody is ever going to be quite equal, you just do more or less in different areas

I'm more for balancing encounters with bosses. Not the jobs themselves ^^;

Compare Chimera to Misers Mistress:
Chimera has high defense to physical attacks and punishes melee for being close to it with varying attacks while mages/bards chill in the distance and knock off a few pesky ants in the comfort of a safe spot so voice of the dragon wont hit them.

Misers Mistress is weak to melee attacks and her only AoE that can hit melee does...not scary damage. (Avoiding bad breath is easy too.) but BLM can still do really nice damage on her and can sleepga it's only threat in the battle, which is like 4 slugs? (If you're killing her quickly)

So basically,
Chimera: Melee have to dodge an array of attacks that happen all around Chimera that knock off 50% health or more and have nasty effects on them.
Misers Mistress: Mages are have to worry about a few slugs that can be slept, but the slugs are potentially dangerous if not handled.

It doesn't seem very balanced in a battle aspect.

[Rydin]

I'm more for balancing encounters with bosses. Not the jobs themselves ^^;

Compare Chimera to Misers Mistress:
Chimera has high defense to physical attacks and punishes melee for being close to it with varying attacks while mages/bards chill in the distance and knock off a few pesky ants in the comfort of a safe spot so voice of the dragon wont hit them.

Misers Mistress is weak to melee attacks and her only AoE that can hit melee does...not scary damage. (Avoiding bad breath is easy too.) but BLM can still do really nice damage on her and can sleepga it's only threat in the battle, which is like 4 slugs? (If you're killing her quickly)

So basically,
Chimera: Melee have to dodge an array of attacks that happen all around Chimera that knock off 50% health or more and have nasty effects on them.
Misers Mistress: Mages are have to worry about a few slugs that can be slept, but the slugs are potentially dangerous if not handled.

It doesn't seem very balanced in a battle aspect.

this ^^^
Its the content just as much (if not more) than the actual classes

[AceofRains]

I'm more for balancing encounters with bosses. Not the jobs themselves ^^;

Compare Chimera to Misers Mistress:
Chimera has high defense to physical attacks and punishes melee for being close to it with varying attacks while mages/bards chill in the distance and knock off a few pesky ants in the comfort of a safe spot so voice of the dragon wont hit them.

Misers Mistress is weak to melee attacks and her only AoE that can hit melee does...not scary damage. (Avoiding bad breath is easy too.) but BLM can still do really nice damage on her and can sleepga it's only threat in the battle, which is like 4 slugs? (If you're killing her quickly)

So basically,
Chimera: Melee have to dodge an array of attacks that happen all around Chimera that knock off 50% health or more and have nasty effects on them.
Misers Mistress: Mages are have to worry about a few slugs that can be slept, but the slugs are potentially dangerous if not handled.

It doesn't seem very balanced in a battle aspect.

I see your point here. If a boss is week to something, wouldn't it try its best to protect itself from that aspect?

[SirOleas]

Pretty much.

Being able to giggle that Chimera can't hit you with Voice of the Dragon because you're standing next to a dead bush as a marker for a safe spot while melee can't really do a whole hell of a lot during the battle damage wise and have to do most of the leg work to stay alive.....is stupid...I have harsher words if need be. I suppose one could argue that the waves of ants are intimidating, but they really aren't.

Misers Mistress uses slugs in place of ants, but only 4 at a time with larger gaps between waves. Sleeping the slugs is an acceptable tactic, you cant sleep all the ants in Chimera so you're forced to kill those. Though I am glad that Misers Mistress is too easy so I can actually play whatever I want really...Which is sad actually lol....

I want challenging battles that endanger all players, not just specific players.

Ranged Melee and Mages have it pretty easy atm.

[SwordCoheir]

So why would you bring a DRG over a WAR? Why would you bring a DRG over a MNK or any other DD? Does it flat out demolish those other DDs in order to make up for the fact it has horrible defense?

For the same reason the term "Bandwagon" was invented. WAR has ridiculously high self healing capacity with Rampage, Bloodbath, and all the Crit gear it has access too, it takes less effort (or more depending on the player) for the WHMs to heal and the added bonus of good DPS with good defense on top of it. In other words WAR got lucky to get all the hate grabbing abilities, high dps, high defense, high hp, good damage negation abilities, and free of charge high-healing capacity. I don't wanna knock it, but I do see a nerf bat coming down sooner or later.

But to be fair, all WAR groups are not all they are cracked up to be. WAR's have no enmity reduction abilities as some have already said and I know for a fact how stressful it is to have your Combos get messed up from hate flying around which can really hurt overall DPS without someone being a solid hate source. But I suppose you could all stand in front to avoid the issue altogether, but you also run the risk of frontal AoE's so it's pretty give and take.

[Lux_Rayna]

Facts are facts. Power Surge level 3 means you take 22.5% extra damage than any other job. Saying "Oh well you just need to avoid AOE moves" is A) bloody obvious and B) is not a solution to random pick up groups that always go the easy way out. Why would they want a DRG that takes 22.5% extra damage than WAR or MNK and has less defensive options than both of those classes? If the extra damage isn't enough of an incentive (do you see people using DRGs in speed runs as the ideal class for max damage?) why would you bring one over a WAR. Title of the thread.

LOL! If being good at your class doesn't matter, like you claim, then yes WAR > all. If you're talking about good players, DRG and MNK is > WAR for dps. Period. And you only take 22.5% more dmg *if* you eat AOEs which would *shouldnt* be eating anyways. The extra dmg taken from Power Surge is negligible unless you just dont know what the heck you are doing. Title of the thread isnt about PUGs and idiots who dont know how to play their class, its about in what circumstances would you take a MNK/DRG over a WAR. And those circumstances are any party where ppl know what the heck they are doing, PUG or not.

Just because ppl dont use DRGS for speed runs doesn't mean its useless, it means ppl will always take the easiest way out. BLM/BRDs and 2 WHMS can do everything faster than everyon else. Does that mean "lol every other job is useless?" No. Your logic is terrible, and you dont even have an argument. Its just "well I think WAR is better so it is," which is a stupid argument altogether. Grats on your opinion, but just because you insist other classes are useless doesn't mean they are. It means you lack enough knowledge to see how other classes are useful. I dont blame you, ppl only have so much time to play so many classes. Just admit that Power Surge+TP gain+less dmg taken by staying in back = more dmg than your WAR. It does. Its simple freakin math lol. Its also less enmity gain, which means we wont cause hate to bounce around like you will if you're not tanking. Which means our WHMs have a much easier time healing, which means party efficiency.

Whats hilarious is you have a LNC lvl 50 yet don't understand this at all. With or without Power Surge, I'll take less dmg than a WAR every time. Why? Wars attack from the front, therefore they eat every aoe while I am only in danger of eating the big 360 AOEs. With Power Surge, my dmg is greater than WAR dmg. With TP Gain, I can launch more combos than the WAR can. Thats not even talking about how crit heavy the LNC combos are, or factoring in Keen Flurry on longer CD skills. Oh did I mention DRG range is greater than WAR range, making it easier for me to avoid AOEs, and even stay out of range of smaller AOE's? There are lots of reasons to take DRG over WAR. Problem is ppl dont know how to play properly, but thats a problem in every job. Its just harder to suck at WAR than it is to suck at DRG or MNK. That doesn't mean WAR a better job, it makes it easier to learn/play.

Your logic is astounding...simply put you're wrong.

[Nightmare8675]

If only we had battle regimen

[Peptaru]

If DRG does all this awesome dmg why is it never tanking? If you outclass warrior DPS by so much, they wouldn't be able to keep hate off of you..... It might outparse by some, but if the difference is as dramatic as you point out you'd have hate. Having hate would render your "super-awesome DRG leetness" useless.

[Answa]

DRG's niche is crit stacking, just like Yoshi said it would be months ago.

Also, to the above poster, DRG has -enmity AF....