Bring back crowd control. Bring back branching dungeons. Bring back ADVENTURE.

[Shurrikhan]

And as for crowd control, it's pointless. WHM has Holy, tanks have interject, and that's basically all you need.

Is that not itself the problem being addressed here? The experience is incredibly shallow, which to many -- i.e. those who do want less shallow dungeon-running -- makes it less enjoyable.

Anything more than that would be useless because it would end up requiring randoms to actually coordinate who does what and when, and no one wants to do that in DF. We just want our roulettes done and over with.

As with intercourse, if the best thing that can be said about content is that it was over quickly, something's gone wrong.

When we want a challenge, we do extreme trials, savage, or ultimate. Making dungeons more complicated would just make tomes, XP, etc, even more tedious to grind.

4-man content does not have to be limited entirely to roulettes. That steamroll roulettes are not a good place for non-steamroll content says nothing for content, 4-man or otherwise, which need not be added to those roulettes. If people want difficult 4-man content -- probably largely because it would not then be limited to a decorated boss square/circle, and would be the optimal place to attach mechanics that require coordination, since such is easier between fewer players -- why should that be any more inherently absurd than wanting difficult 8-man content? It'd be new, yes. But the fact we don't have anything like it, despite its individual components (coordination, a decent level of difficulty, mechanics that can't just be healed through) being considered good design and plenty able to perform in a 4-man setting just as well as an 8-man encounter, is exactly why it's being requested. It'd be something fun, likely more fun than most other ways to spend those resource costs (especially when considering its novelty), which we don't currently have access to. What better reason is there for adding something to the game?