Bring back crowd control. Bring back branching dungeons. Bring back ADVENTURE.

[Luna_K]

i mean hell i have seen groups kick a tank because they aren't wall to wall pulling because "reeeeeee it might take me 5 extra minutes to complete a dungeon!"

I think some dungeons need more tank stops. areas where you need to defeat the enemies before you can continue. too many times I've had a tank pull literally everything, wipe, then get mad a the healer and dps. some even leave after the wipe. why are you trying to speedrun the game? are we really saving time if we wipe cuz you had to pull everything? I've had ppl say they have a raid or something to get to in like 2 min, and I'm like 'why did you even que for a dungeon then?". sry for the rant, but I come across too many ppl who seem to be determined to not want to enjoy the game.

[TheRogueX]

I think some dungeons need more tank stops. areas where you need to defeat the enemies before you can continue. too many times I've had a tank pull literally everything, wipe, then get mad a the healer and dps. some even leave after the wipe. why are you trying to speedrun the game? are we really saving time if we wipe cuz you had to pull everything? I've had ppl say they have a raid or something to get to in like 2 min, and I'm like 'why did you even que for a dungeon then?". sry for the rant, but I come across too many ppl who seem to be determined to not want to enjoy the game.

I had a run where the newbie tank did a huge wall-to-wall, without his tank stance on, and died because I had to be careful with casting so I wouldn't steal aggro and have everyone die. After I rezzed him he turned his stance on and the rest of the dungeon had no troubles... yet he blamed ME for his ignorance at the start of the fight... It was in ARF.

[Luna_K]

I had a run where the newbie tank did a huge wall-to-wall, without his tank stance on, and died because I had to be careful with casting so I wouldn't steal aggro and have everyone die. After I rezzed him he turned his stance on and the rest of the dungeon had no troubles... yet he blamed ME for his ignorance at the start of the fight... It was in ARF.

I see, maybe the tank stance should just be turned on automatically, like some of the new gathering changes. perhaps it could be done away with and just factored into tanking, they got rid of protect, maybe tank stances should be next on the chopping block. i'm sry if it doesn't sound like i'm being nice, but I think they are pandering to new players and how to make the game easier for them.

[TheRogueX]

I see, maybe the tank stance should just be turned on automatically, like some of the new gathering changes. perhaps it could be done away with and just factored into tanking, they got rid of protect, maybe tank stances should be next on the chopping block. i'm sry if it doesn't sound like i'm being nice, but I think they are pandering to new players and how to make the game easier for them.

When they got rid of tank dps stances I really had no idea why they kept tank stances at all.

[TheGrimace]

I would love more intricate dungeons, but as long as Duty Roulettes exist and people continue wanting to face roll content for the fastest method to reach the end of their random dungeon, it's not gonna go over well.

Not if the dungeon is part of the same roulettes as all the others, anyway. Make intricate dungeons with multiple objectives and make them disconnected from other content while also making them worth running. Do this and you will find several conclusions:

1. Diadem, content with semi related but also free roaming options that promote exploration. While the idea sounds enticing, the first and second iterations of Diadem were so bad that they were removed from the game. I think it was because you had to have a party to get anywhere outside of gathering. Make a zone like Diadem that can be done without alliances or even full 8-man parties and you may have something.
2. Eureka. A step closer in the right direction, but still too grindy and punishing for its own good. The exploration becomes a chore, rather than the joy.
3. Baldesion Arsenal. While this was locked away behind all of Eureka and was still linear, I think this dungeon may be the closest thing we have to what people suggest. Difficult but rewarding boss fights and mechanics, and the dungeon itself takes much strategy to maneuver.

But if Baldesion Arsenal were tweaked to work for smaller parties, the danger would be less potent and the rewards would not be as tantalizing. It's a very difficult balancing act. Maybe it could be remedied by making drops in chests far more rare, or introducing more random elements.

I think it would be interesting to see more varied dungeons in the game, but I also think it would be really hard to implement in a way that the majority finds enjoyable. Dungeons as they currently exist may be linear, but they are also fun exercises and so that's why they persist. We're already down to 3 cumulative linear dungeons every 2 patches since Stormblood, as opposed to the 3 we would get per patch back in ARR. Dungeons are some of my favorite content in the game, so I hate to see them so limited now. I am fine with them trying more new and different approaches to content as long as it doesn't further detract from how thin the dungeons have become. It's a greasy road they have yet to maneuver after looking at their previous attempts, and that's where my concern arises.

[RitsukoSonoda]

IMO I feel like a large contributing factor of the issue is that when gamers realized that developers could now change things in game through updates or patches, too many of them stopped trying to improve as a gamer and instead switched to crying and complaining to the developer to just make it easier for them. Games in general feel like they're just they're shifting further down the road to being dumbed down to the point of making the slowest person feel good about themselves at the expense of everyone else. And many of the ones that didn't need the game simplified are turning into the gamer equivalent of those people on the spaceship in Wall-e...

[battleshadow66]

No thanks. While I'd like harder content that does not "speed run everything. Crowd control is a bad way to go. It will end with more fustration then anything.

Maybe CC on boss fights, but id like trash mobs to not be a nightmare.

[monk-dps]

You say you want branching dungeons but the ones we do have everyone just B-lines to the fastest path possible. Branching paths in dungeons sounds nice until the player base finds the fastest, easiest route to take and suddenly the branching paths are moot. The playerbase at large does NOT want this. Look at how we treat the dungeons now. You'll have better chances asking for SE to make everything harder and even that is a pipe dream with how the players at large handles it.

[Hasrat]

Proposal for "branching" paths:

Include special mobs that will dictate what path gets taken based on certain criteria. If mob casts Skill A, Path A is opened. If mob casts Skill B, Path B opens instead. Or make it time dependent. If mob dies within time limit, Path A. Exceed time limit, Path B. Maybe it can check the role of the player dealing killing blow, or presence of other mobs at time of death or during fight, etc.

Important requirement that both/all paths be balanced still, for time/exp. As long as it remains fairly close, there's no real benefit to optimizing one over the other.

But, I think it would still turn out to be forks more than branches. Should still meet back up at bosses. Not sure I'd agree so readily to adding extra dev work designing extra boss fights. They're already on a schedule as it is, trying to push branching paths exceeds expected workload already. Adding in entire boss fights is probably a bit much as a first step.