Thread: Monk Adjustment Feedback 5.1

Looking over a lot of the messages, I saw a lot of good points about potential reworks. I feel like the primary 2 skills that need a rework are still TK and Anatman. Anatman because having it slow us down to get a proc goes against the identity of MNK which is to go really fast. TK because it's our strongest single hit in our kit, but it's counter-intuitive to our kit since it dumps GL but we want to keep GL forever. I already suggested changes to these so I won't restate them.

I saw suggestions for the Fist Stances and I'm honestly kind of in the middle with them. I feel like they could be reworked into traits or something since pre-76(?) or whenever we get the Riddle of Wind trait we exclusively use FoF, then at that point FoW becomes relevant which doesn't make sense due to FoW just being a button to walk a little bit faster. That being said, I feel like GL4 should be a normal trait like the previous GL increases were and the stances should maybe be reworked to be competitive with one another and actually have various uses throughout a fight. Example: Increase FoF damage increase and change FoW to be a haste buff instead of a movement speed buff. This could make it to where you'd be in FoW outside of buff windows to get more skills/autos off but when buffs are about to go out you switch to FoF to increase your burst in that window. As for FoE, I literally have no idea since RoE covers that pretty solidly so honestly just remove it.

For Six-sided Star I saw a couple suggestions as well. Personally I feel like it can be left the way it is if they rework Tornado Kick and Anatman. It's a useful skill to mitigate the amount of DPS you lose when you have to disconnect from a boss and it slowing the GCD isn't so overly annoying that it breaks the job. That being said, I feel like because we have Form Shift we don't really need SSS to refresh the GL timer so I would rather see SSS become an oGCD on like a 60 second CD that does a large bit of damage and grants a Chakra when used. It would increase out burst in buff windows and allow us another way to generate Chakra outside of RNG, which is something MNK desperately needs right now in my opinion.

Another suggestion I saw was towards the number of Chakras we have and one person suggested having TK tie in with Chakra rather than GL and personally I wouldn't mind it, but I would prefer if each stay as is. With reworks TK becomes our reward for maintaining GL for x amount of time. The Forbidden Chakra should be our reward for getting Chakra. That said, I would like the 2 extra chakras simply because it would give an opportunity for another oGCD. I would personally like for it to be Touch of Death. Though maybe a 2nd DoT is a bit much and in that case just make it decent potency attack. Pretty much I want Chakra to be more than get 5 stacks, click TFC and nothing else. Having actual management with it would be neat and rewarding, imo.

I'm not a Monk main, but I do like reading up on other jobs and getting insight on those who do main various jobs (as being a healer main, knowing how other people play their jobs helps me with my own), and I do want to ask: I've wondered about giving Monk attacks in each form that have no positional requirement but aren't AoEs. One Ilm Punch could be returned in this capacity, with maybe Touch of Death as well. Right now, Monk has the most positionals, and I understand that Monk does have 2 True North stacks and Earth's Reply which help deal with this (and 1 and a half bosses in high end raid have no positional indicators), but I look at something like Ninja which now has a grand-total of 2 Positional Requirements (with Trick Attack losing its positional tonight at the time of writing) and Dragoon and Samurai, while having many, does build up something with it (an upgraded combo starter and oGCDs) while Monk is just damage. Sure, this could bring back button bloat, as that's three more situational-use buttons, but, sometimes, you just have to hit the boss from undesirable positions. Anyway, I dunno if this would be good for Monk or not.

I know you're saying about making TK like Foul, but what about making Six-Sided Star like Raiden Thrust? Sure, that's more "homogenization", but the job with so many positionals would probably like something like this.

PS: With this Antaman (and now Meditation) optimization openers, SE will probably eventually adjust it so that those skills can only be used while engaged in combat. I dunno, I just think it's something y'all shouldn't get used to.

Originally Posted by inhaledcorn

I'm not a Monk main, but I do like reading up on other jobs and getting insight on those who do main various jobs (as being a healer main, knowing how other people play their jobs helps me with my own), and I do want to ask: I've wondered about giving Monk attacks in each form that have no positional requirement but aren't AoEs. One Ilm Punch could be returned in this capacity, with maybe Touch of Death as well. Right now, Monk has the most positionals, and I understand that Monk does have 2 True North stacks and Earth's Reply which help deal with this (and 1 and a half bosses in high end raid have no positional indicators), but I look at something like Ninja which now has a grand-total of 2 Positional Requirements (with Trick Attack losing its positional tonight at the time of writing) and Dragoon and Samurai, while having many, does build up something with it (an upgraded combo starter and oGCDs) while Monk is just damage. Sure, this could bring back button bloat, as that's three more situational-use buttons, but, sometimes, you just have to hit the boss from undesirable positions. Anyway, I dunno if this would be good for Monk or not.

Mmmmm, I honestly wouldn't like it. Part of why I play MNK is because of the positional requirements. I'm forced to move and think about how the boss will move and adjust accordingly and doing an entire fight with no missed positionals feels amazing. Plus if they did that then we'd have yet another issue of skills overriding other skills. We currently have SSS, Form Shift, and Anatman that all kind of do the same job just in slightly different ways and it's annoying because it makes the skills feel less unique. So by introducing non-positional combo they'd override True North and Riddle of Earth and take up 3 spots on our hotbars. But yeah, I prefer MNK being the super fast, positional oriented DPS. It gives it an identity and makes it rewarding because they are direct DPS increases when compared to like SAM who wants to hit them for gauge but the DPS gain isn't as large as MNK. But I guess newer players find constantly having to hit positionals annoying and just wanna stand still and do damage, idk.

As for SSS, idk, I feel like it would be neat to see it tie in since MNK is a martial arts class so hitting one combo leads into a more powerful 2nd combo, but idk. There's a lot they could do for it.

For Anatman and Med I'm pretty sure you still have to be in combat to get the procs. If you didn't no one would be complaining about Anatman since we could just get to GL4 before the countdown starts then just spam form shift.

Originally Posted by ZyrinMisharuji

Mmmmm, I honestly wouldn't like it. Part of why I play MNK is because of the positional requirements. I'm forced to move and think about how the boss will move and adjust accordingly and doing an entire fight with no missed positionals feels amazing. Plus if they did that then we'd have yet another issue of skills overriding other skills. We currently have SSS, Form Shift, and Anatman that all kind of do the same job just in slightly different ways and it's annoying because it makes the skills feel less unique. So by introducing non-positional combo they'd override True North and Riddle of Earth and take up 3 spots on our hotbars. But yeah, I prefer MNK being the super fast, positional oriented DPS. It gives it an identity and makes it rewarding because they are direct DPS increases when compared to like SAM who wants to hit them for gauge but the DPS gain isn't as large as MNK. But I guess newer players find constantly having to hit positionals annoying and just wanna stand still and do damage, idk.

As for SSS, idk, I feel like it would be neat to see it tie in since MNK is a martial arts class so hitting one combo leads into a more powerful 2nd combo, but idk. There's a lot they could do for it.

For Anatman and Med I'm pretty sure you still have to be in combat to get the procs. If you didn't no one would be complaining about Anatman since we could just get to GL4 before the countdown starts then just spam form shift.

See, that's why I wanted a real Monk's insight on the idea because, clearly, I am not. I have a hard time myself on the positions because my dps mains are Ninja and Dancer, so I don't really have to worry about those things that much. I will say, though, tying the actual GL4 to FoWind was a good idea due to the amount of moving needed to hit positionals.

While I do know Antaman can only gain its procs while in combat, but the skill itself can be used outside of it, which is why people are seeing about using the skill pre-pull while using outside programs to track server ticks to optimize the use of the skill. That is what I was talking about when SE will solve the problem by making it so that the skill can't be used unless while in combat. Honestly, I think, at this point, it should be a combo Form Shift Meditate skill so that's less buttons you have to hit during downtime, maybe replacing both skills when the skill is learned. I dunno.

How much DPS do you lose by simply ignoring Anantman in the opener?

Originally Posted by Kabooa

How much DPS do you lose by simply ignoring Anantman in the opener?

I guess it's not "massive" but your only other alternative is to use Perfect Balance to get GL stacks somewhat quickly, but if you do that you're missing out on 3-4 Leaden Fists under some raid buffs (automatic 300 potency crits, usually anywhere from 28k-35k; Under maximum buffs I've hit like a 55k Bootshine). So you lose quite a bit of DPS on the opener by not using Anatman, Leaden Fist is just too powerful to not use PB as a spam tool for it.

Originally Posted by Kahnom

For low ping players,they lose a bit.
For high ping players,Using Anatman is only dps loss.
You know, server ticks + clipping = screwed.

Inaccurate. Even with high ping Anatman was (is) still a DPS gain over PB for GL gain simply because Leaden Fist exists. PB allows us to get 3-4 Leaden Fists off under buffs whereas PB for GL means you get like 1 Leaden Fist under raid buffs. Leaden Fist is just that strong. Additionally, even if you don't use PB for GL gain, you're then losing 10% flat damage from the lack of that extra GL stack and it also puts your GL4 further behind which means less DPS as you aren't attacking as quickly or as hard.