What are your opinions on optimal pull size in the 71-79 dungeons?

[Reinfeld]

I've always been in the camp of "bigger-is-better", but after working on a couple of tanks as well as AST through those levels I've been having second thoughts. A lot of healers either aren't able to keep up with larger pulls, or the party spends the entirety of the fight on the brink of wiping. While on the other hand, if you have a good healer (one who DPSes whenever possible) and you keep pulls in the 1-2 group range they seem to melt pretty fast.

Of course, maybe PLD is just really bad for big pulls in that level range (I don't remember struggling so much on WAR), and my view on optimal strategy has become warped.

[Elkanah]

PLD is the GOAT between 71-79 dungeons. Depends on which tank I'm on, and what healer I have. If I have a WHM, it doesn't matter which tank I use cause I can pull everything or 2 packs (minimum) and be fine. But with AST, SCH, I limit it to 2 packs (unless the healer thinks they can go for more or I know them personally). For me, it all comes back to who my DPS are (how they're geared) and what rotations they're spitting for dps up time. This includes my healer gear and how they heal, and myself with CD's

PLD - almost no match 71-79.
GNB - Very close second, but lags behind a little compared to PLD
WAR - so so about 70/30
DRK - always bottom tier of the list

[Deceptus]

PLD is the GOAT between 71-79 dungeons. Depends on which tank I'm on, and what healer I have. If I have a WHM, it doesn't matter which tank I use cause I can pull everything or 2 packs (minimum) and be fine. But with AST, SCH, I limit it to 2 packs (unless the healer thinks they can go for more or I know them personally). For me, it all comes back to who my DPS are (how they're geared) and what rotations they're spitting for dps up time. This includes my healer gear and how they heal, and myself with CD's

PLD - almost no match 71-79.
GNB - Very close second, but lags behind a little compared to PLD
WAR - so so about 70/30
DRK - always bottom tier of the list

DRK's are gods in dungeons. They have massive aoe damage (If I'm not first, I'm usually second) and TBN is amazing. I leveled DRK last because of the stigma and I don't see their weakness.

On topic: Double pulls are basically safe if everyone is on their game.

[VenKitsune]

PLD is the GOAT between 71-79 dungeons. Depends on which tank I'm on, and what healer I have. If I have a WHM, it doesn't matter which tank I use cause I can pull everything or 2 packs (minimum) and be fine. But with AST, SCH, I limit it to 2 packs (unless the healer thinks they can go for more or I know them personally). For me, it all comes back to who my DPS are (how they're geared) and what rotations they're spitting for dps up time. This includes my healer gear and how they heal, and myself with CD's

PLD - almost no match 71-79.
GNB - Very close second, but lags behind a little compared to PLD
WAR - so so about 70/30
DRK - always bottom tier of the list

You have to be joking. PLD and GNB have some of the weakest self cooldowns in the game. Sure Camouflage and sheltron are great with trash but...Compared to TBN? lol nope.

DRK and WAR are easily the best trash mob tanks. TBN is amazing, RI is amazing. Living shadow basically clones you, doubling your aoe damage, and WAR has chaotic cyclone and vengeance and IR.
Holmgang can also be used 3-4 times per dungeon where as Hallowed may sometimes only be usable once, maybe twice depending on the dungeon.
Clemency should not be factored in to the equasion - If you need to use clemency then your healer is either undergeared or you are, or one of you sucks.

All the tanks are pretty similar when it comes to trash, but DRK and WAR are hands down the better 4 man dungeon tanks.

I think the fact that this question exists just shows how flawed the 4 man content is.. full pulling every mob in a dungeon shouldn’t even be possible. That should be suicide.

They really need a difficulty level for content that is between the face roll of dungeons now and savage raiding.. how does it go from really easy to really hard with almost nothing in between in the game? This seems like it should be priority one content add for the largest number of players who run out of stuff to do.

This has always been a problem in this game, especially outside of ARR. Literally the only midcore content in the game is extreme trials, everything else is either casual or hardcore, or in the case of ARR, casual or midcore.

I would say it's due to a lack of resources or time...But they've had time to instead implement Eureka and Diadem that i think would of been time better spent on more midcore content like extreme mode dungeons that actually have mechanics, or even 8 man dungeons. Or hell, just more extreme trials.

[Broxis]

I'm no tank (WHM and AST) but I'm gonna pipe in and agree that DRK seems to be hands down the sturdiest tank in dungeons with rando pugs. You can practically ignore a DRK half the time and they take care of themselves.

I think every dungeon pull should be wall to wall the instant you see that either yourself or your healer is synced/geared to ilvl OR the healer is a WHM (holy is busted). If not its a toss up. There are a few exceptions though:

-Holminster switch. You need to inspect your healer here because a lot of people walk into this instance not in scaevan and that second pull is actually scary for some healers because many dont get their big tools until 74 and they probably used most of their stuff on the first pull. This is also why ravel probably feels so easy though- healers generally have all their stuff at 74.

-Il mheg last superpull with the horse. This pull can be awful if the healer or tank is in bad gear or the healer is 73.

-Gulg megapull. Speaks for itself, but you should have a judge of your healer on the second one if this is possible or not. If its a WHM I'd just go for it anyways.

[Elkanah]

.

You're right, TBN actually is much better this time around compared to what it was in sb. Different game changer. I keep looking at it as what it was before they updated it and made it better.

[ReiMakoto]

You're right, TBN actually is much better this time around compared to what it was in sb. Different game changer. I keep looking at it as what it was before they updated it and made it better.

I mean youre still wrong, in Stormblood TBN was just as broken in dungeons allowing you to become an unstoppable aoe monster of constant health regeneration.

[Elkanah]

I mean youre still wrong, in Stormblood TBN was just as broken in dungeons allowing you to become an unstoppable aoe monster of constant health regeneration.

I must not have played DRK enough at that time to really notice it. I was mostly WAR during sb, so that might be why it seemed not as broken or great as I had thought it was.

[wereotter]

You have to be joking. PLD and GNB have some of the weakest self cooldowns in the game. Sure Camouflage and sheltron are great with trash but...Compared to TBN? lol nope.

When it comes to trash specifically, I'm going to disagree on this one. (which is what this thread is about)

Problem I'm seeing with Blackest Knight compared to Camouflage now that I'm leveling up dark knight is that once that shield breaks, you have no defenses. Not only that but it only lasts for 7 seconds (and usually breaks before that) meaning you have to burn off another cooldown once the shield breaks. Camouflage on the other hand isn't the best mitigator, but does last for 20 seconds and provides a defensive ability that entire time.

So on large pulls, I've always felt like gun breaker has a better suite of cool downs than dark knight. That's not to say that blackest knight is bad... just I feel like camouflage is better on large pulls.

[VenKitsune]

When it comes to trash specifically, I'm going to disagree on this one. (which is what this thread is about)

Problem I'm seeing with Blackest Knight compared to Camouflage now that I'm leveling up dark knight is that once that shield breaks, you have no defenses. Not only that but it only lasts for 7 seconds (and usually breaks before that) meaning you have to burn off another cooldown once the shield breaks. Camouflage on the other hand isn't the best mitigator, but does last for 20 seconds and provides a defensive ability that entire time.

So on large pulls, I've always felt like gun breaker has a better suite of cool downs than dark knight. That's not to say that blackest knight is bad... just I feel like camouflage is better on large pulls.

Think about it in terms of eHP (Effective HP), not in terms of buff length.

TBN is a flat 25% shield, meaning in the 3-5 seconds it takes to break you take ZERO damage. Meanwhile, Camouflage might seem good but in reality its likely going to take those full 20 seconds to make up the same value...and even then, after 20 seconds many things would have died, thus reducing the incoming damage. This is why TBN is better..