What are your opinions on optimal pull size in the 71-79 dungeons?

[Reinfeld]

I've always been in the camp of "bigger-is-better", but after working on a couple of tanks as well as AST through those levels I've been having second thoughts. A lot of healers either aren't able to keep up with larger pulls, or the party spends the entirety of the fight on the brink of wiping. While on the other hand, if you have a good healer (one who DPSes whenever possible) and you keep pulls in the 1-2 group range they seem to melt pretty fast.

Of course, maybe PLD is just really bad for big pulls in that level range (I don't remember struggling so much on WAR), and my view on optimal strategy has become warped.

[Elkanah]

PLD is the GOAT between 71-79 dungeons. Depends on which tank I'm on, and what healer I have. If I have a WHM, it doesn't matter which tank I use cause I can pull everything or 2 packs (minimum) and be fine. But with AST, SCH, I limit it to 2 packs (unless the healer thinks they can go for more or I know them personally). For me, it all comes back to who my DPS are (how they're geared) and what rotations they're spitting for dps up time. This includes my healer gear and how they heal, and myself with CD's

PLD - almost no match 71-79.
GNB - Very close second, but lags behind a little compared to PLD
WAR - so so about 70/30
DRK - always bottom tier of the list

[Kronocidal]

Ive found the defining issue is the mobs use of AOE's and the templates of those AOE's

big pulls with mobs that direct attack are no drama, but a big pull of aoe spamming mobs can get very hard on close range players or if the availible space is tight

[Kabooa]

Oddly, Holminster switch seems to be the most dangerous, probably because it's before you get back / improve your mitigation and healers get their newer healing tools. The Bears there serve as good indicators of how big your pull to should be, either killing first then pulling the rest, or using them as the stop gap for a two pack.

HS is completely doable in wall to wall, though it does seem far more stressful than the rest of them, outside the two potential mega pulls in Mt. Gulg, but if you're going for those, you probably aren't pugging.

[Deceptus]

PLD is the GOAT between 71-79 dungeons. Depends on which tank I'm on, and what healer I have. If I have a WHM, it doesn't matter which tank I use cause I can pull everything or 2 packs (minimum) and be fine. But with AST, SCH, I limit it to 2 packs (unless the healer thinks they can go for more or I know them personally). For me, it all comes back to who my DPS are (how they're geared) and what rotations they're spitting for dps up time. This includes my healer gear and how they heal, and myself with CD's

PLD - almost no match 71-79.
GNB - Very close second, but lags behind a little compared to PLD
WAR - so so about 70/30
DRK - always bottom tier of the list

DRK's are gods in dungeons. They have massive aoe damage (If I'm not first, I'm usually second) and TBN is amazing. I leveled DRK last because of the stigma and I don't see their weakness.

On topic: Double pulls are basically safe if everyone is on their game.

[Shurrikhan]

I only remember doing maybe three runs where we didn't consistently full pull, across all the jobs I've leveled on this character and a similar number across my alt?

Given that I've only seen 2 wipes (when a tank full-pulled Ravel without popping *any* CDs and while wearing SB gear, the other when my tank d/ced and the PLD didn't bother to Clemency himself) in those sixty or so runs, full pulls seem pretty optimal.

My tank-related $.02 (I have GNB and PLD maxed on the other character, WAR and DRK on this one): WAR typically felt the squishiest overall to me until able to max out NF with double-Infuriate. DRK drops the hardest between its burst mitigation (TBNs). GNB feels like it has the least control over whether it lives or dies. PLD feels overall sturdiest. There's not a single one I had difficulty full-pulling with, though, provided you don't have a healer who insists on using their cheapest spell only (Benefic, Physick, Cure) despite being near max mana.

Edit: One exception to the full pulls: Mt. Gulg. I tended to see the first 3-pack pull split into two (into the first pack and then the last two) for convenience just because of the massive run time between, especially after people stopped assuming it was just the two visible pulls. (Most would forget about the third drop-down pull, and therefore have to do that one last.) The last three-pack would sometimes also be split to do the last set separately.

[Dadbod]

I think the fact that this question exists just shows how flawed the 4 man content is.. full pulling every mob in a dungeon shouldn’t even be possible. That should be suicide.

They really need a difficulty level for content that is between the face roll of dungeons now and savage raiding.. how does it go from really easy to really hard with almost nothing in between in the game? This seems like it should be priority one content add for the largest number of players who run out of stuff to do.

[Elkanah]

I think the fact that this question exists just shows how flawed the 4 man content is.. full pulling every mob in a dungeon shouldn’t even be possible. That should be suicide.

They really need a difficulty level for content that is between the face roll of dungeons now and savage raiding.. how does it go from really easy to really hard with almost nothing in between in the game? This seems like it should be priority one content add for the largest number of players who run out of stuff to do.

With a PLD using hallowed ground, plus their normal CD's and clemency (if in immediate danger depending on player), anything can practically be pulled after level 60 for the job. With the right players, you can do what would normally be considered impossible to some. High dps can skip phases quicker in endgame and non related endgame content. So I'm not really seeing the issue with it. Some people are just bad at pulling and not knowing their go-to and strength of the team or their fellow fc members. That's the whole point of learning your job and the jobs around you (or the people you play with). Isn't that why we read our tool tips? Isn't that why we play to learn our job? (Some of us at least)? The difference between players who play to enjoy but also to learn? Now, a lot of folks aren't gonna be able to do that. And that's understandable. Not everyone is gonna pick it up and think or know how to run some content better than others, or it may take people longer. It's a learning experience. But that's the key difference between people trying, people who learned and know how to, and people who just want to play the game cause "you don't pay my sub".

[VenKitsune]

PLD is the GOAT between 71-79 dungeons. Depends on which tank I'm on, and what healer I have. If I have a WHM, it doesn't matter which tank I use cause I can pull everything or 2 packs (minimum) and be fine. But with AST, SCH, I limit it to 2 packs (unless the healer thinks they can go for more or I know them personally). For me, it all comes back to who my DPS are (how they're geared) and what rotations they're spitting for dps up time. This includes my healer gear and how they heal, and myself with CD's

PLD - almost no match 71-79.
GNB - Very close second, but lags behind a little compared to PLD
WAR - so so about 70/30
DRK - always bottom tier of the list

You have to be joking. PLD and GNB have some of the weakest self cooldowns in the game. Sure Camouflage and sheltron are great with trash but...Compared to TBN? lol nope.

DRK and WAR are easily the best trash mob tanks. TBN is amazing, RI is amazing. Living shadow basically clones you, doubling your aoe damage, and WAR has chaotic cyclone and vengeance and IR.
Holmgang can also be used 3-4 times per dungeon where as Hallowed may sometimes only be usable once, maybe twice depending on the dungeon.
Clemency should not be factored in to the equasion - If you need to use clemency then your healer is either undergeared or you are, or one of you sucks.

All the tanks are pretty similar when it comes to trash, but DRK and WAR are hands down the better 4 man dungeon tanks.

I think the fact that this question exists just shows how flawed the 4 man content is.. full pulling every mob in a dungeon shouldn’t even be possible. That should be suicide.

They really need a difficulty level for content that is between the face roll of dungeons now and savage raiding.. how does it go from really easy to really hard with almost nothing in between in the game? This seems like it should be priority one content add for the largest number of players who run out of stuff to do.

This has always been a problem in this game, especially outside of ARR. Literally the only midcore content in the game is extreme trials, everything else is either casual or hardcore, or in the case of ARR, casual or midcore.

I would say it's due to a lack of resources or time...But they've had time to instead implement Eureka and Diadem that i think would of been time better spent on more midcore content like extreme mode dungeons that actually have mechanics, or even 8 man dungeons. Or hell, just more extreme trials.

[Broxis]

I'm no tank (WHM and AST) but I'm gonna pipe in and agree that DRK seems to be hands down the sturdiest tank in dungeons with rando pugs. You can practically ignore a DRK half the time and they take care of themselves.

I think every dungeon pull should be wall to wall the instant you see that either yourself or your healer is synced/geared to ilvl OR the healer is a WHM (holy is busted). If not its a toss up. There are a few exceptions though:

-Holminster switch. You need to inspect your healer here because a lot of people walk into this instance not in scaevan and that second pull is actually scary for some healers because many dont get their big tools until 74 and they probably used most of their stuff on the first pull. This is also why ravel probably feels so easy though- healers generally have all their stuff at 74.

-Il mheg last superpull with the horse. This pull can be awful if the healer or tank is in bad gear or the healer is 73.

-Gulg megapull. Speaks for itself, but you should have a judge of your healer on the second one if this is possible or not. If its a WHM I'd just go for it anyways.