Speed Run + Timer

[Chardrizard]

I would agree remove speed runs and make it more about skill and team work.

but u need skill and very good team work to do speed runs...... you need all 8 people to work in sync and that only comes from constant practicing, optimizing, and everyone understanding the basic layout of the raid.

[Amsai]

The point is it's possible to do, it's completely another thing if PEOPLE decide not to do it.

Sorry Char, but thats a BS argument. The challenge of the dungeon should be the dungeon, not finding people tollerant of letting people go as what they want. Now should that necessarily mean that they should get rid of timed dungeons? Thats the debateable part, but in truth I would like to see a little more variety in 2.0 including non-timed, or highly trapped/puzzled, and multiple path dungeons.

But there are other ways to fix class stacking. They could either force lock, 1 of every class and then one person could be a second whatever class (in the future when more classes released 8 different classes force locked); or they could use positive or negative reinforcement to deal with class stacking. Such as deminishing returns that double triple etc etc with each duplicate job in the party (my personal fav, in your faces black mages. Or they could go with positive reinforcement which would leave the benefits of class stacking alone, but gain a bonus on all stats that increase with each different class in the party (so 8 man of all different classes would get a signifiant bonus to atk/matk/acc/macc/eva/HPs/MPs/critatk/etc/etc)

I would be ok with any of the above 3 methods of dealing with class stacking, because honestly is just a bunch of cheap (but unfortunately effective) BS. So yes I am in favor of SE forcing diverse set ups, or greatly penalizing those that want to class stack, and if you dont like that then it just proves that people that want to class stack want things the easy way. Which in my opinion is wrong.

Luckily im in a LS that doesnt care what people go as, as long as we have any healer and any tank, the rest can come to events as they please. Does this cause us a bit of trouble and frustration sometimes? Yes, but its rewarding in that we can beat things with out class stacking (even if behind other LSs) and dont alienate LS members that dont have X class or force LS member Y to go as a class they dont want to go as.

[Vanfrano]

I lol'd at "you can speed run just fine with any job".
Did you actually try it before saying that ?

A Rng for example does 1/4 damage of a Blm output on Chimera. Now say you take 5min on Chimera by stacking Blms, how long will it take if you stack Rngs instead of Blms ? 20min. Where is the speed run ?

Stack front-line DDs on the Coincutter, who can only make 1 or 2 ws before having to stop or move to avoid Swing, do you really think they can be any faster than a bunch of Blms and Rngs ? DDs best part of their combo is their last WS, how can they be fast if they can't do it ?

You'll answer that they just have to time it right. I'll say no, just no. There's no reason that some jobs have to suffer the need to time their combos right, and probably get hit or OS'd while two other jobs can just spam from a distance, while keeping the Whms safe with their already troublesome hate since they have to heal a tank that gets hit for 2~3k.

There is no way you can speed run "just fine" with any job.

And don't even get me started on Princess Myrmidon...

[DoctorMog]

All I hear are the people who cant clear the dungeon with ANY setup bitching.

Ill do a run with 1 of every class in the party tonight. FRAPS it and have it for you tomorrow.

[Vanfrano]

We are talking about speed runs btw.

[DoctorMog]

We are talking about speed runs btw.

So am I.

Speed run. 1 of each class (probably 2 WHM as the 8th) Video of us doing it. On youtube. Tomorrow.

So you can all QQ somewhere else that its "party makeup" or something that is making you fail.

[Nilheim]

All I hear are the people who cant clear the dungeon with ANY setup bitching.

Ill do a run with 1 of every class in the party tonight. FRAPS it and have it for you tomorrow.

That is not even the point, but maybe you're just here to say you're cool cause you can speed run it everytime? Congrats.
The point is, unlike you who has been spamming those raids with your LS since it came out, not everyone has the time to train on speed runs 5 hours a day and even if they did, time attack conditions are not fun for the majority of players.
Should time attack stay? Sure, why not? But making it a requirement to fully complete a raid is not the proper way to make it work. You can still speed run, you'll save time and be able to do more runs yourself and have a better chance at getting drops, so really you wouldn't lose anything and more casual players would get the chance to enjoy the content without restraints.

Sometimes you have to realize your friends and LS don't make up the whole playerbase.

[Amsai]

So am I.

Speed run. 1 of each class (probably 2 WHM as the 8th) Video of us doing it. On youtube. Tomorrow.

So you can all QQ somewhere else that its "party makeup" or something that is making you fail.

If you can actually do this on one of the new dungeons then first Ill be impressed, and second Ill be shocked you allowed such diversity. Dont get me wrong, I believe it can be done too. Took my LS forever to do a speed run on DH with all differnt classes (minus 8th), and we did the same with 7 players before as well, but It CAN be done. But I dont think its as easy as you make it sound with your "it will be youtubed tomorrow comment" Good Luck sucker.

[D3aTh]

1st, ppl here are talking about speed run with all classes
2nd , even if it is possible to clear all speed runs with all classes, I think everyone will agree that blm own dungeons and mnks own Mistress. So why would anyone bother to do harder clears of speed run (just for "challenge") and risk every run the speed run chest with that crappy drop rate? I can agree that doing a speed run chest only with all classes is perfectly doable, but again, why would ppl bother to do that and get only 2 chests instead of 5? Srsly , I think even if a pt can complete speed run w/o stacking classes, I don't think they will chain with that setup to get the drops.

and 3rd (has nothing to do with class stacking) I think SE makes speed runs only because they a too lazy to make a though dungeon that last 1h so they just make a dungeon that takes a maximum of 35mn (35 mn without rush) and they add 25 mn to the timer. imo, speed runs are just SE lazyness

[Amsai]

Well this would all be a moot point an the class stacking issue at least, If SE new how to ballance their classes or the content of the dungeons. There should be no set up that has a GREAT advantage. Small variations sure, but not huge gains becuase of particular set ups. If dungeons/classes were designed with this in mind, the only thing left for this thread would be whether or not people actually like timed and speed run dungeons, and not about the lack of ballance in favor of certain set ups.