Red Mage "better"??

[Eloah]

It needs to be stated that these buffs, while small, will add up. We have to remember that, of the 3 "main" casters, RDM is the fastest, that's part of the reason they got MP nerfs in the previous update, they were so fast they kept running out of MP, even with Lucid Dreaming on CD. We'll still have to wait and see, but for the most part things seem good.

[Archwizard]

Dev intent with those moves is aesthetics. Dash in, melee, dash out, looks cool. And they have accomplished just that. If you want to look cool, by all means and use the movement tools in conjunction with your melee combo. However this is not what we do in optimized play.

Then let me be more clear.

I was discussing it because Leidiriv was being intentionally obtuse about the dev intent of CaC with relation to the melee rotation.

Functionally, you are correct that in optimized play it would just be an oGCD. However, it is not the dev intent for it to be purely an oGCD for damage, shown by the gap-closer component, connection to Manafication, and its original timing to come off cooldown approximately as often as we melee.

Wereotter had a point that if melee rotation frequency increases significantly, then the dev intent of CaC falls apart, which is why it is surprising that its CD is thus far unaffected.

Not here to argue that "you should stay back 20y and silo spells", only to point out that no, you know exactly why CaC was brought up, even if that's not how you use it.

[alimdia]

Ultimately it doesn't matter, line up with CaC doesn't matter, you have plenty of time to run in range when you see you're approaching the mana level of melee combo, it doesn't ruin anything, you don't have to spam reprise, you don't have to lower your mana, just literally walk to the boss during a dualcast window and you can melee, because being able to reposition in dualcast also happens to be a flavor of RDM.

I don't know if you and the other guy are expecting the devs to hold the "dash in - melee - dash out" as if it was some immutable canon.

Also if the dev intent was just the visual aesthetic they would have removed any potency from both movement skills, as long as RDM has RNG procs and those skills have potency they won't always line up. The fact that they keep the potency post 5.0 changes means they are okay with the way people are using them as ogcds, and they even added a high payout / low payout version of the disengage skill.

[Leidiriv]

Then let me be more clear.

I was discussing it because Leidiriv was being intentionally obtuse about the dev intent of CaC with relation to the melee rotation.

Functionally, you are correct that in optimized play it would just be an oGCD. However, it is not the dev intent for it to be purely an oGCD for damage, shown by the gap-closer component, connection to Manafication, and its original timing to come off cooldown approximately as often as we melee.

Wereotter had a point that if melee rotation frequency increases significantly, then the dev intent of CaC falls apart, which is why it is surprising that its CD is thus far unaffected.

Not here to argue that "you should stay back 20y and silo spells", only to point out that no, you know exactly why CaC was brought up, even if that's not how you use it.

It's not being intentionally obtuse to separate gameplay from cinematics. If the dev intention was truly that we should dash > melee > Displacement/Engagement > use finishers, they would have linked the skills together mechanically. Since they didn't, we can assume they intended for us to use the skills more freely than that.

[remiff]

Never Happy,
redmage dps increase is pretty big and absolutely not weak .
is 6.5% is pretty nice .

[Karshan]

If you were doing 14,000 you will now be doing 14,900 wihtout making anymore effort. Plus you always have perfect opener, so no more junk like in E1S where no perfect opener means a hard time hitting melee before V&V.
Come on guys, like Remiff said it's really a good patch.

[Taranok]

Exactly .. I play several classes, Machinist, RDM and Dancer are my preferences.. and they all seem to have gotten a "bandaid" potency increase for the gaping wound that is their lack of DPS.. what surprised me was that they increased Dragoon.. it was already in a good place for DPS and yet they incresed it again.. makes me wonder which of the SE senior devs plays Dragoon...

I mean, look at Black Mage throughout stormblood and you'll realize this is par for the course.

First in 4.05, cast time from 3s to 2.8 on fire/blizzard 4, reduced mana cost of fire 1 (to match fire 4), foul made free, triplecast recast time dropped to 60s from 90.

Then in 4.2, Transpose dropped to 8s from 12, Firestarter and Thundercloud durations buffed to 18s, Aetherial Manipulation down to 10s from 30, Fire 4 potency buffed from 260 to 280.

Then in 4.4, Fire 4 bumped from 280 to 300 potency.

My point is, that took them over a year to get BLM where they wanted it, and it wasn't until the second raid tier, 6 months into the expansion, that BLM was actually viable as a selfish DPS class. Up until that point the class was nowhere near the top on DPS charts, eclipsed by classes like Monk or Summoner, you know, supporty DPS classes.

It takes time and they don't like overdoing it because they'd rather buff a class instead of nerf it. I'm already insanely surprised at the relatively major changes they're making to classes like Ninja, Summoner, AST and RDM (acceleration specifically) because the devs have a history of not making drastic changes mid-expansion.

[Rivinhal]

If you were doing 14,000 you will now be doing 14,900 wihtout making anymore effort. Plus you always have perfect opener, so no more junk like in E1S where no perfect opener means a hard time hitting melee before V&V.
Come on guys, like Remiff said it's really a good patch.

I think the issue is that with all the buffs everyone else is getting, that proposed 900 damage likely won't be enough to pull it out of the spot it's currently in.

I hope that's wrong though, as I'd love to start playing RDM again. But honestly I'm a bit pessimistic about this...

[SaberMaxwell]

I think the issue is that with all the buffs everyone else is getting, that proposed 900 damage likely won't be enough to pull it out of the spot it's currently in.

I hope that's wrong though, as I'd love to start playing RDM again. But honestly I'm a bit pessimistic about this...

It's honestly fine just because the ceiling (BLM and MNK*) stayed the same. They pulled the floor up closer to the ceiling, and that's one of the two things that needed to happen.

[ForteNightshade]

Exactly .. I play several classes, Machinist, RDM and Dancer are my preferences.. and they all seem to have gotten a "bandaid" potency increase for the gaping wound that is their lack of DPS.. what surprised me was that they increased Dragoon.. it was already in a good place for DPS and yet they incresed it again.. makes me wonder which of the SE senior devs plays Dragoon...

Dragoon was buffed for a single reason: they don't want to nerf Monk.

Both Samurai and Ninja have increased potencies baked into their respective changes. Thus, if they did nothing to Dragoon, it would linger behind. The buffs aren't even that substantial; netting roughly a 1% increase give or take. It'll basically keep Dragoon fighting with Ninja.