Not Happy With The New Changes

[Callinon]

With the limited time I had, going through the abilities and resorting my hotbars, crafting became less appealing to me. Normally people do not like change, but it is what actually changed has me concerned. One being Steady Hand I and II. So by the looks of it, RNG is going to suck even more (thanks for removing Reclaim SE, wtf, seriously?) But you kept the fail rates of a lot of abilities. Imo you pretty much destroyed macro crafting, or at least butchered the effectiveness. Now I admit macro crafting prob did become a little too OP, I will admit it. But it kinda screws the easier recipes. For high end (master+) recipes, no one should be able to use a macro and have a good chance imo, but that is not what really got destroyed here.

You should spend a little more time then. Because virtually all the abilities that had failure rates lost them in this patch. This was to compensate for the removal of Steady Hand, an entirely pointless ability that everyone was forced to use all the time.. so it needed to go.

[Liam_Harper]

The only ability affected by the Steady Hand removal is Hasty Touch, Patient Touch and Rapid Synth, none of which were used much.

Macro crafting seems fine so far, sure it's less easy to Reuse macro 1-100% in rubbish gear but I'm still getting near 1-100% with an unrefined macro for Glass Fibre in Dwarven Cotton gear.

If anyone wants to tweak or mess about with it go ahead. Using NQ Blood Bouilla, Specialist, 541 base CP. Can't guarantee it'll work under 2300 craft tho. I'll look into gear soon.

/ac "Reflect" <wait.3>
/ac "Manipulation" <wait.2>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Observe" <wait.3>
/ac "Focused Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Observe" <wait.3>
/ac "Focused Touch" <wait.3>
/echo Macro #1 complete <se.1>

/ac "Manipulation" <wait.2>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis" <wait.3>
/echo Macro #2 complete <se.14>

Seems Strides-Brygots is around 14k with Ingen and Inno, which actually isn't as much of a nerf as I'd feared.

EDIT:

Wow.

The gear is an absolute joke to HQ. This is my experimental unrefined macro that went 1-100% but I'm sure better ones will be theorycrafted soon.

/ac "Reflect" <wait.3>
/ac "Manipulation" <wait.2>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Preparatory Touch" <wait.3>
/echo Macro #1 complete <se.1>

/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis" <wait.3>
/echo Macro #2 complete <se.14>

[EphPhoen]

I'm with Lemuel81. And Liam_Harper, I use Hasty Touch and Patient Touch quite a bit, so the loss of Steady Hand affects how I approach crafting by quite a bit. I feel like Crafting got screwed while Gathering got nothing but upsides. I didn't use guides to come up with my crafting style, I earned it, and they just took it away. And if they're so underutilized, as you say, then why weren't they cut with the others? And a 60% and 50%, respectively, chance is definitely not worth the investiture.

And as far as the RNG argument is concerned: If you have to rely on luck, it's not a skill. Being skillful is being able to do something to a reasonable level consistently. If every time you do something it is dependent on a coin flip that you can do it, that's not skill, that's gambling or being favored by a deity. The entire premise of Pathfinder/D&D is based on this. At the low levels, making anything decent with your skills is a crapshoot, but when you get to the higher levels, your making things becomes less of a roll of the die, and more the effort (i.e. skill points) you put into the thing. You can still occasionally fail if you roll really horribly, but on average, you can produce consistently.

[Lemuel81]

You should spend a little more time then. Because virtually all the abilities that had failure rates lost them in this patch. This was to compensate for the removal of Steady Hand, an entirely pointless ability that everyone was forced to use all the time.. so it needed to go.

That is not what I saw logged in. Abilities still had failure rates and nothing to compensate for them.

[Lemuel81]

snip

Mhmm, someone mentioned that it was nothing to craft trivial recipes. Like I said, I will need to see how it plays out, but they still watered it down. There was no reason to dumb it down that much, should be interesting to see how the harder recipes will be like.

Thx for sharing your info

[Callinon]

I'm with Lemuel81. And Liam_Harper, I use Hasty Touch and Patient Touch quite a bit, so the loss of Steady Hand affects how I approach crafting by quite a bit. I feel like Crafting got screwed while Gathering got nothing but upsides. I didn't use guides to come up with my crafting style, I earned it, and they just took it away. And if they're so underutilized, as you say, then why weren't they cut with the others? And a 60% and 50%, respectively, chance is definitely not worth the investiture

Forgive me but that sounds a lot like "I invented this freeze mage rotation and no one's going to tell me it's bad!"

You should ask yourself WHY you're leaning so hard on skills with high failure rates when skills that don't have that problem are readily available.

Hasty Touch and Rapid Synth have their uses at very low levels (mostly Hasty, probably less so now though), but they obsolete relatively quickly. By the time you're level 40 or so, you shouldn't even be considering them. Certainly by 80 they should have a thick layer of dust on your hotbars if they're even still there.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

That is not what I saw logged in. Abilities still had failure rates and nothing to compensate for them.

The only abilities that still have failure rates are Hasty Touch and Rapid Synthesis as far as I can see. Focus Synthesis and Focused Touch still have their 50% success rate without Observe but 100% with it. What other skills are you seeing that have fail rates?

[Maeka]

So I took the new crafting system for a whirl and wow.

This is awesome. I am entirely loving this new system.

I was so sick and tired of most of your good actions other than Careful Synth being 90% chance. It was always so laughable how often 10% chance would actually happen, sometimes 5 times in the same recipe.

I bought a couple Blacksmithing tools and a suit of 71 gear, turned a BSM quest in, dinged BSM 71 and now I'm happily crafting away, and actually making HQs now without having to study spreadsheets and junk and the crafting buttons themselves are more enjoyable with there only being two risky buttons (Hasty Touch and Rapid Synth) that I know of, everything else is 100% success which means no lame "I failed 3 Hasty Touches this time, HQ is now impossible without an Excellent proc". There's still stuff like Excellents happening when I am 5 durability left, but eh. I can handle that. I'll work around it. That's better than three 90% abilities failing in a row which was always such a miserable thing.

All-in-all, I've done more crafting this morning than I had done in months.

Mission Accomplished IMO. Yoshi-P wanted us casuals to craft more and I will certainly be doing that. This has all of my YES.

You can also see the effect on the MB too, already: There are several level 71 tools up for reasonable prices unlike before you'd need 200k+ to buy yourself an HQ tool from the MB. Now they are hovering between 20k and 50k.

[Lemuel81]

The only abilities that still have failure rates are Hasty Touch and Rapid Synthesis as far as I can see. Focus Synthesis and Focused Touch still have their 50% success rate without Observe but 100% with it. What other skills are you seeing that have fail rates?

Nah your correct. I guess that's acceptable.

[Isparson]

But those two (Hasty Touch and Rapid Snyth) have had their EFFECTIVE success rates lowered, in that you can no longer use Steady Hand to compensate. They've gone from both being 70-80 %, with Steady Hand 1 or 2 buff, to 60% and 50% respectively, with that rate unable to be raised in any way.

Maybe these do disappear from your hotbars later, but Hasty Touch was, at least for me, the workhorse of my rotations from mid-20s until late 40s, (i.e., yesterday). Now, I don't see any point at all to these two abilities ... except maybe as conceptual predecessors to their Focused versions.