Not Happy With The New Changes

[CookiesNCreams]

Ok but you didn't answer the question. You're looking for skill-based crafting, and I've seen you in other threads saying that just adding RNG isn't adding skill. I agree with that. But then what?

My problem here is that you seem to be arguing both sides at the same time:
- Adding RNG doesn't make crafting more skillful
- Adding RNG adds difficulty and skill to crafting

Which is it?

RNG is not skill.
RNG is, however, difficult, in its own way.

You don’t know if you’ll be lucky or not when competing in a contest. Why? Because there are other competitors better than you. That makes it difficult to win the contest.

You don’t know if you’ll be lucky or not when crafting endgame. Why? Because the procs are not guaranteed to happen. You could fail it. That makes it difficult.

The term “difficult” is really easy to understand. Not sure why there’s so many people trying to uncover some sort of “secret” to it. dif·fi·cult
/ˈdifəkəlt/
adjective
needing much effort or skill to accomplish, deal with, or understand.

That is the definition of the word difficult. Crafting needed much effort to accomplish, therefore it was difficult. To argue otherwise is nonsense, that is the definition of the word. Did it take skill? No. Did it take understanding? Only if you wanted to improve your HQ chances. But it was difficult because of the large amount of time/effort needed.

But now? Buy a few NQ materials for like 20,000 gil on the market, click a one button macro you found online and bam, 100% guaranteed you get a piece of end game crafting gear that can be used by all crafting classes. A few minutes of effort right now get you what would have taken dozens of hours to get back then.

[Callinon]

RNG is not skill.
RNG is, however, difficult, in its own way.

You don’t know if you’ll be lucky or not when competing in a contest. Why? Because there are other competitors better than you. That makes it difficult to win the contest.

You don’t know if you’ll be lucky or not when crafting endgame. Why? Because the procs are not guaranteed to happen. You could fail it. That makes it difficult.

The term “difficult” is really easy to understand. Not sure why there’s so many people trying to uncover some sort of “secret” to it. dif·fi·cult
/ˈdifəkəlt/
adjective
needing much effort or skill to accomplish, deal with, or understand.

That is the definition of the word difficult. Crafting needed much effort to accomplish, therefore it was difficult. To argue otherwise is nonsense, that is the definition of the word. Did it take skill? No. Did it take understanding? Only if you wanted to improve your HQ chances. But it was difficult because of the large amount of time/effort needed.

But now? Buy a few NQ materials for like 20,000 gil on the market, click a one button macro you found online and bam, 100% guaranteed you get a piece of end game crafting gear that can be used by all crafting classes. A few minutes of effort right now get you what would have taken dozens of hours to get back then.

Hmm, so I'm reading your definition here and it doesn't mention luck. I believe my concern was that RNG is luck and has nothing to do with skill or effort. Unless your definition of difficulty just means bashing your face into something over and over again until it happens to come out just right irrespective of anything you actually did. That's not difficulty, that's luck.

luck
/lək/
noun
success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

[CookiesNCreams]

Hmm, so I'm reading your definition here and it doesn't mention luck. I believe my concern was that RNG is luck and has nothing to do with skill or effort. Unless your definition of difficulty just means bashing your face into something over and over again until it happens to come out just right irrespective of anything you actually did. That's not difficulty, that's luck.

luck
/lək/
noun
success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

If you’re wanting something...and that something is gated by, I dunno, luck? That means it’s difficult because you have something in your way. Easiest way I can explain it to you.

[Callinon]

If you’re wanting something...and that something is gated by, I dunno, luck? That means it’s difficult because you have something in your way. Easiest way I can explain it to you.

So never mind the definition you've been bandying about, "difficult" just means whatever you want it to mean to prop up your position? Got it.

[CookiesNCreams]

So never mind the definition you've been bandying about, "difficult" just means whatever you want it to mean to prop up your position? Got it.

Um, no. Please read the definition of difficult again.

Let’s just agree to disagree, these conversations are pointless when it comes to someone trying to argue that RNG isn’t technically difficult. I debated with someone over this for like, an hour before, and it didn’t go anywhere. I’m just happy it’s added to endgame crafting again, and even more happy that lazy and/ or underachieving players cannot just arbitrarily sit down and mass produce endgame recipes like it’s a piece of cake.

[Hanmerreborn]

Um, no. Please read the definition of difficult again.

Let’s just agree to disagree, these conversations are pointless when it comes to someone trying to argue that RNG isn’t technically difficult. I debated with someone over this for like, an hour before, and it didn’t go anywhere. I’m just happy it’s added to endgame crafting again, and even more happy that lazy and/ or underachieving players cannot just arbitrarily sit down and mass produce endgame recipes like it’s a piece of cake.

You keep saying "difficult" when you mean tedious.

If Macro A can 100% a craft one attempt, and get 80% the next solely by reliance on good procs at exactly the right time , that's not difficult, that's tedious. It just means you have to do gather slightly more materials.

Difficult would require a large HQ material investment to begin or an exceedingly long whistle combo, not "did I get the three good procs during this two button macro" or not.

[CookiesNCreams]

You keep saying "difficult" when you mean tedious.

If Macro A can 100% a craft one attempt, and get 80% the next solely by reliance on good procs at exactly the right time , that's not difficult, that's tedious. It just means you have to do gather slightly more materials.

Difficult would require a large HQ material investment to begin or an exceedingly long whistle combo, not "did I get the three good procs during this two button macro" or not.

How is RNG tedious? Because you or I get angry that our crafts fail? RNG is annoyingly difficult, because nothing you do is guaranteed. As I said, this conversation is pointless, these never go anywhere. I just want hardcore or vet crafters getting what they want, and casual players getting what they want as well. And if this is how Yoshida wants to do it, I personally hope it forever stays this way. I’m not opposed to a skill based system though.

Also, it depends how difficult it is to obtain HQ mats. I assume based on what Yoshida said, procs will apply to all endgame recipes, including mats needed to make endgame gear. If obtaining HQ mats is child’s play, nothing will really change. (Luckily he stated he notices his broken it is currently, and 5.1 will basically nerf that).

TLDR: RNG is difficult in its own way, you can not convince me otherwise no matter what. And I can’t convince you either. I’m glad it’s this way

[Callinon]

Um, no. Please read the definition of difficult again.

Is italics "difficult" different than normal "difficult?" Because it doesn't seem like "random event you have no control over" really plays a role in difficulty as you've defined it... well at least as you defined it the first time. Your goalposts should settle down somewhere eventually.

Let me put it this way: if a raid boss randomly just wiped your party in say 12% of encounters and there was nothing you could do to prevent that... that's not difficulty... that's just bullshit.

Now hey, if you want endgame crafting to include random bullshit that screws you for no reason, that's fine... whatever turns you on. But let's not you and I mistake that for difficulty or effort. It's just bullshit.

[Ksenia]

RNG is not skill.
RNG is, however, difficult, in its own way.

But now? Buy a few NQ materials for like 20,000 gil on the market, click a one button macro you found online and bam, 100% guaranteed you get a piece of end game crafting gear that can be used by all crafting classes. A few minutes of effort right now get you what would have taken dozens of hours to get back then.

I think you forgot why everyone hates RnG though.


Crafter A crafts 20 hrs a week and after a month has nothing to show for it. - well and good, it's "difficult".


And then Crafter B logs in, crafts for 2 hrs a week and in a month, has 3 or 4 of the super rare item and you can't convince them it was ever difficult. It wasn't for them because RnG.