FFXI vs FFXIV Difficulty

[Levian]

You do realize this game is meant to be solo/casual friendly right...? This game isn't meant to be tough like FFXI, at least not in terms of the level grind. I am tempted to agree that leveling might be a little too accelerated at this moment though. But, without throwing any mid level content in, why bother dragging out the process?

[Dragonheart]

again... exping classes in XI (the example that op said) was hard? Simply tedious and more slow... And in modern games the games aren't centered around the grinding for level capping the character... Even ifrit is "harder" than any ffxi fight, simply because has more modern mechanics (not at the same level of some hard modes in wow as example, but still nice)

[Petdo]

Hmm why don't you go back and play FFXI OP?

[Jericho]

Hmm why don't you go back and play FFXI OP?

Because FFXI has been remodeled into something that barely resembles what the game was in its prime. The vast majority of players didnt want a level cap increase, didn't want endgame events reduced to soloable shells of what they once were, and didn't want EXP handed to them and everyone around them (For the love of God, don't bring up that ridiculous "Don't like it? Don't do it." argument. That's not what an MMO is about). Nobody is going to go back to FFXI because they don't like this game. They came to this game because FFXI fell apart.

You all seem to think that its just a handful of "FFXI elitists who want this game to be FFXI-2" making these suggestions. Its not. People level every class to 50, not because they're bored and there's nothing else to do, but because they can and it's the new norm because they can. You have to if you want a good reputation and good invites. It's gross.

You do realize this game is meant to be solo/casual friendly right...? This game isn't meant to be tough like FFXI, at least not in terms of the level grind. I am tempted to agree that leveling might be a little too accelerated at this moment though. But, without throwing any mid level content in, why bother dragging out the process?

If they put a level cap on some stuff, there would be mid-level content. Toto-rak, certain quest battles, if you level capped them, there would mean at level 30, you have no more benefit over the player at level 50 (for example). There's enough mid-level content to justify a slower leveling system.

Ruh roh

HERE WE GO

inb4 if you like FFXI so much why don't you marry it

Why do people respond with these little trendy phrases so quickly? It's really annoying.

[Exekutor]

People level every class to 50, not because they're bored and there's nothing else to do, but because they can and it's the new norm because they can. You have to if you want a good reputation and good invites. It's gross.

I dont know why you play this game, but i dont need "good reputation", because i dont define myself by accomplishments in this game. My only level 50 Class is Lancer and i have no problems getting invites for anything i want to do, be it Ifrit, DH, AV or whatever. I dont have problems finding a party and i dont care about reputation. I play this game because its fun.

[faris]

...Buh? Originally the cap in FFXI was 50, the same as FFXIV. You only had WAR, WHM, THF, MNK, BLM, and RDM too. A lot of people had everything at 50 way back then.

Even ifrit is "harder" than any ffxi fight, simply because has more modern mechanics (not at the same level of some hard modes in wow as example, but still nice)

...lolno. Sorry, but I'm mentally comparing Ifrit to stuff like pre 75+ Diabolos / Fenrir or even BCNMs like Price of Valor and just not seeing that at all, sorry.

[Firon]

...Buh? Originally the cap in FFXI was 50, the same as FFXIV. You only had WAR, WHM, THF, MNK, BLM, and RDM too. A lot of people had everything at 50 way back then.



...lolno. Sorry, but I'm mentally comparing Ifrit to stuff like pre 75+ Diabolos / Fenrir or even BCNMs like Price of Valor and just not seeing that at all, sorry.

Lol i tanked all of that in XI none of those fights was hard except diablos maybe, Hell i bet 90% of the xi players that still play would wipe to orge x100 times if they don't look @ an vid cause almost every fight is stand in 1 spot and kill it.

[Haydest]

I disagree with you OP. While I agree on some levels that XI had a harder difficulty than XIV--leveling as you have highlighted should not be the main focus of making thing difficult: bosses and end-game encounters should be where challenges lie.

Do you know what the difference between XI and XIV leveling was? You couldn't beat anything by yourself and this situation became progressively worse as you leveled; even matches were a 75/25 at level 5, eventually raising to be a 50/50 shot by your teens, and by the time you finally reached that long journey of 75--you were lucky if an easy prey didn't kick your ass. Where was the fun in that?

Of course there a few exceptions to this rule: as long as you had a ninja subjob or had some means of throwing extra layers of protection (Red Mage, for example) your chances of soloing increased.

The other reason was capped EXP--for the longest time. When your exp bar reaches 5 digits and you're still receiving the cap you did at level 15, it's no wonder why it took people several months to a year to get to cap. Getting there twice? Not many people wanted to go through that tedious grind again, let alone once--this is the main reason why people are more likely to level several jobs in XIV.

You need to get out of the Everquest-Era mentality; MMO's are mainstream these days and no one is going to want to play a game where the fun does not begin for them until 6 months into the subscription, and yes...for a game like XI and XIV, end-game is essentially where the fun is for a majority of the people. The old type of model does not sell, at all--and this is EXACTLY what SE (Wada) needs, especially after the original XIV launch fumble.

P.S. Emperor Palpatine shot lightning out of his fingers, so your point is moot.

[Zaaku]

I disagree with you OP. While I agree on some levels that XI had a harder difficulty than XIV--leveling as you have highlighted should not be the main focus of making thing difficult: bosses and end-game encounters should be where challenges lie.

Do you know what the difference between XI and XIV leveling was? You couldn't beat anything by yourself and this situation became progressively worse as you leveled; even matches were a 75/25 at level 5, eventually raising to be a 50/50 shot by your teens, and by the time you finally reached that long journey of 75--you were lucky if an easy prey didn't kick your ass. Where was the fun in that?

Of course there a few exceptions to this rule: as long as you had a ninja subjob or had some means of throwing extra layers of protection (Red Mage, for example) your chances of soloing increased.

The other reason was capped EXP--for the longest time. When your exp bar reaches 5 digits and you're still receiving the cap you did at level 15, it's no wonder why it took people several months to a year to get to cap. Getting there twice? Not many people wanted to go through that tedious grind again, let alone once--this is the main reason why people are more likely to level several jobs in XIV.

You need to get out of the Everquest-Era mentality; MMO's are mainstream these days and no one is going to want to play a game where the fun does not begin for them until 6 months into the subscription, and yes...for a game like XI and XIV, end-game is essentially where the fun is for a majority of the people. The old type of model does not sell, at all--and this is EXACTLY what SE (Wada) needs, especially after the original XIV launch fumble.

P.S. Emperor Palpatine shot lightning out of his fingers, so your point is moot.

Here is my view on it. Everyone is trying to be like WoW or pandering to casual play or free play with micro transactions. FFXI was set apart from the crowd because of its incredibly difficult game progression. True it did turn off COUNTLESS possible players. Hell I remember getting frustrated just trying to install the damn game. In the end though that is what made FXI unique and those players who did last a month, stayed for years and years and years. Sure the model is not going to net as many subscribers as an easier client but the ones you do get will pay out the nose until you shut down the servers.

FFXIV tried to go the way of the casual and look what happened. They already have a die hard core player base in FFXI who would just kill for a FFXI-2 plus whatever new blood they would lure in with this new shiny games challenging difficulty. Without a doubt they would be in much better shape then we are right now. It is only because SE is stubborn as mule this project didn't flatline 2 months after launch.

Going back to what they know, what their fans like, and at this point is the safest route is to make this more like FFXI. A fact we're seeing with each new patch as they begin to move back to the original design.

[Haydest]

Here is my view on it. Everyone is trying to be like WoW or pandering to casual play or free play with micro transactions. FFXI was set apart from the crowd because of its incredibly difficult game progression. True it did turn off COUNTLESS possible players. Hell I remember getting frustrated just trying to install the damn game. In the end though that is what made FXI unique and those players who did last a month, stayed for years and years and years. Sure the model is not going to net as many subscribers as an easier client but the ones you do get will pay out the nose until you shut down the servers.

FFXIV tried to go the way of the casual and look what happened. They already have a die hard core player base in FFXI who would just kill for a FFXI-2 plus whatever new blood they would lure in with this new shiny games challenging difficulty. Without a doubt they would be in much better shape then we are right now. It is only because SE is stubborn as mule this project didn't flatline 2 months after launch.

Going back to what they know, what their fans like, and at this point is the safest route is to make this more like FFXI. A fact we're seeing with each new patch as they begin to move back to the original design.

You are dead silly if you think FFXIV flopped because the game was trying to be casual; if ANYTHING the game is far more casual now than it was at launch. Rested EXP bonus that is far superior to the utter-crap system that was Guardian's Aspect? Increased EXP through leve's and the implementation of power-leveling? Whether you argue PLing was intentional or not, the dev's seemed neutral about it to the point that it still exists today.

AF armor is far more accessible in this game than it was in XI; if you played during NA launch you practically had to beg high level Japanese players to help you finish it because lord knows your static party and LS was likely not strong enough to complete the body piece NM.

FFXIV flopped because the game was shipped incomplete that only a small percentage of PC users could even run; the PS3 version was not even done at the point (still isn't, arguably speaking) and alienated a good proportion of players. The UI was clunky, there was terrible server and input lag as well as possibly the worst implemented player market in the history of MMO's.

Once again, stop mistaking that long grinds, and tedious boredom equals to hardcore whereas simplicity must mean casual. I did 4 years of HNMLS in FFXI and at least 5 years of WoW raiding before my real life situation forced me into a less reliable schedule. There were a number of encounters in both that games that I could have said were challenging and also say they were easy.

People stuck with XI because of the people they made connections with and because of the terrible RNG (not ranger) system that made them kill Fafnir 97 times to get a Ridill, not because it was hard. Let's not count how many times (and hours of sleep lost) it took them even claim the HNM.

Don't believe me? You can still find the livejournals of plenty of these 'hardcore' FFXI raiders online. If you slowly go through their entries, you'll find that by the end--most of them agreed that the game just became a tedious job.