Highly Notorious Monsters

[Xatsh]

While I am not 100% up for slamming people who still play XI on forums. Jeronlmo is right, XI is dead and SE killed it doing the casual methods that many are advocating here. They removed the core element which kept the hardcores happy.

Those playing XI are playing a shell of game that tried to become casual like WoW and screwed over its current playerbase in the process. But he is right people over there think they are good because they have relics, to get in an endgame shell now they sorta expect you to have several... There is nothing hardcore left in XI, anyone who thinks there is are just kidding themselves. It is fine to like the game, just like it is fine to like WoW. But for many XI is worse then WoW now... at least WoW has content.

That is the problem with XI and why us hardcore cannot go back. They removed any and all long term goals to appease the casuals only... the hardcore were forced to flee the game. This is why myself, jeronlmo, and several other are advocating to at least keep some long term hardcore elements. To keep a chunk of the population from leaving. We need some things that you cannot just walk over to, things that require a commitment of time. People hate time sinks but it is the 1 element that keeps mmos alive. Without them you end up with WoW where the population booms after an expansion and 3 weeks later half the population is waiting on a patch for more content.

A mmo should be a game for everyone, not just a certain group.

[Andrien]

While I am not 100% up for slamming people who still play XI on forums. Jeronlmo is right, XI is dead and SE killed it doing the casual methods that many are advocating here. They removed the core element which kept the hardcores happy.

Those playing XI are playing a shell of game that tried to become casual like WoW and screwed over its current playerbase in the process. But he is right people over there think they are good because they have relics, to get in an endgame shell now they sorta expect you to have several... There is nothing hardcore left in XI, anyone who thinks there is are just kidding themselves. It is fine to like the game, just like it is fine to like WoW. But for many XI is worse then WoW now... at least WoW has content.

That is the problem with XI and why us hardcore cannot go back. They removed any and all long term goals to appease the casuals only... the hardcore were forced to flee the game. This is why myself, jeronlmo, and several other are advocating to at least keep some long term hardcore elements. To keep a chunk of the population from leaving. We need some things that you cannot just walk over to, things that require a commitment of time. People hate time sinks but it is the 1 element that keeps mmos alive. Without them you end up with WoW where the population booms after an expansion and 3 weeks later half the population is waiting on a patch for more content.

A mmo should be a game for everyone, not just a certain group.

If your idea of hardcore mean playing the waiting game, then that is your preference of choice. I agree that the game should cater to both groups, however everything else you said is purely opinion base.

Now back to another point. If someone is dedicated, and have the resources to get a relic or an empyrean weapon, then nothing should stop them. But, to upgrade them to maximum power is another story. That requires a lot of time, but the difference is that every time spent is progress.

[Xatsh]

If your idea of hardcore mean playing the waiting game, then that is your preference of choice. I agree that the game should cater to both groups, however everything else you said is purely opinion base.

Now back to another point. If someone is dedicated, and have the resources to get a relic or an empyrean weapon, then nothing should stop them. But, to upgrade them to maximum power is another story. That requires a lot of time, but the difference is that every time spent is progress.

No not really, numbers do not lie.

Look at sub count pre and post abysea. Look at relic count from vanadiel census pre abysea and look at the last one. ~50% of the sub count did not just 1 day all go hey I am going to quit and never come back.

There is no opinion in that post, everything is fact and that is the scary part. You can deny that abysea killed the game for hardcores, but there is more then enough posting that on every forum on the web that proves a lot who quit use that as the reason.

There is no such thing as content that will make everyone happy. Casual HNMS will still piss off the hardcores... that is something that everyone need to understand. So there for the only solution is to have content for everyone. It is a waste of time to try to find the magical content that makes 60hr a week players happy and 2hr a week players happy. No mmo has done it and I do not see any doing it in the near future.

[Andrien]

No not really, numbers do not lie.

Look at sub count pre and post abysea. Look at relic count from vanadiel census pre abysea and look at the last one. ~50% of the sub count did not just 1 day all go hey I am going to quit and never come back.

There is no opinion in that post, everything is fact and that is the scary part. You can deny that abysea killed the game for hardcores, but there is more then enough posting that on every forum on the web that proves a lot who quit use that as the reason.

Fact, the game is not dead.. Secondly, this forum is only 3% of the entire FFXIV gaming community. Not sure about FFXI.
Fact, the game is still profitable.
Fact, the game is old.. I'm not surprised.