Highly Notorious Monsters

[AttacKat]

But what if you had some HNM's that were instanced, and also some with a spawn window? You could have some nm's that popped every half hour, every 5 minutes, or even several hours. Isn't variety the best thing? That way you're appealing to both casuals AND hardcore players?

And to help determine which method is best liked/enjoyed by the playerbase, w/o anyone crying, is introduce ONE and only ONE HMN, using all the different methods. Doing so will allow SE to keep track of how many battles were activated for each method, and determine which method is the most popular/desired one by the players. Of course, this is just in a very general sense, SE may need to fine tune the details related to this approach.

BTW, I need add this - it seems to me that some of you thinks those of us that plays only a few hours a week are "casual" players, and those that put in long hours daily are hardcore. This is the furthest from the truth as you can get. Often, it just means we are more efficient on our method of playing, making every min count, instead of waiting around.

Personally I do not have issues with activated HNM with pre-conditions, because I have no issues with spending time to meet the necessary requirements. But I can see why some people will be against this method, and sad to say, the only logically reasoning I can think of is they just do not want to bother spending time with pre-conditions, and it is much easier just to wait it out. I cannot say how other plays their game, but I do know for the 1-2 hrs I have each day, I like to be productive with my char when I play, and not sit there for hours and do nothing. I can always just do LS chat to be unproductive.

Item flooding is a moot argument really, as SE can either make the HMN super hard, or loot drop super low. Neither the super low Darklight armor drops, or Iffy Ex, prevented players from doing those "events".

jc

(edited grammar errors)

[Jeronlmo]

Oh man....Dude.. I just can't find the right words.. Explain how you can camp two things at one time..

Look, you're also talking about what if situations, because someone like myself could be capped out in all those categories. Who will actually warp out from faf/nid to do a quest anyways...?

I'm going to assume you haven't played FFXI for a very long time, because the so called old HNMs are all triggered pop, and it is not a walk in the park to get them to pop either.

O...K... considering I was talking about LS's the entire time, my ls could camp several HNM's at once, as could most HNM's.

FF11 no longer exist, abyssea wiped out 10yrs of gear/quest/events and all content in general, its a whole new gimp fest of people who think they are good because dynamis is soloable... like a good portion of the rest of the game now, and as stated many pages back, the fact that relics are as common as Onion Swords should tell you how bad the game really is.

[Andrien]

O...K... considering I was talking about LS's the entire time, my ls could camp several HNM's at once, as could most HNM's.

FF11 no longer exist, abyssea wiped out 10yrs of gear/quest/events and all content in general, its a whole new gimp fest of people who think they are good because dynamis is soloable... like a good portion of the rest of the game now, and as stated many pages back, the fact that relics are as common as Onion Swords should tell you how bad the game really is.

I like how you slander the entire fanbase of the franchise, and especially the fans that still play FFXI. That tells me a lot about you.

abyssea wiped out 10yrs of gear/quest/events and all content in general

Abyssea brought new content to a stagnated game that revolves around old content that stretched for +5 years. Its too bad you didn't adapt.

gimp fest of people who think they are good because dynamis is soloable

Perhaps its because they're LV99 and doing a LV75 content..

how bad the game really is.

In case you're unaware, FFXI is getting a new expansion this year, and it is still the most profitable Final Fantasy franchise Square Enix has to date. Explain to me how FFXI doesn't exist and why it is bad for you.

[Xatsh]

While I am not 100% up for slamming people who still play XI on forums. Jeronlmo is right, XI is dead and SE killed it doing the casual methods that many are advocating here. They removed the core element which kept the hardcores happy.

Those playing XI are playing a shell of game that tried to become casual like WoW and screwed over its current playerbase in the process. But he is right people over there think they are good because they have relics, to get in an endgame shell now they sorta expect you to have several... There is nothing hardcore left in XI, anyone who thinks there is are just kidding themselves. It is fine to like the game, just like it is fine to like WoW. But for many XI is worse then WoW now... at least WoW has content.

That is the problem with XI and why us hardcore cannot go back. They removed any and all long term goals to appease the casuals only... the hardcore were forced to flee the game. This is why myself, jeronlmo, and several other are advocating to at least keep some long term hardcore elements. To keep a chunk of the population from leaving. We need some things that you cannot just walk over to, things that require a commitment of time. People hate time sinks but it is the 1 element that keeps mmos alive. Without them you end up with WoW where the population booms after an expansion and 3 weeks later half the population is waiting on a patch for more content.

A mmo should be a game for everyone, not just a certain group.

[Jeronlmo]

I like how you slander the entire fanbase of the franchise, and especially the fans that still play FFXI. That tells me a lot about you.


Abyssea brought new content to a stagnated game that revolves around old content that stretched for +5 years. Its too bad you didn't adapt.


Perhaps its because they're LV99 and doing a LV75 content..


In case you're unaware, FFXI is getting a new expansion this year, and it is still the most profitable Final Fantasy franchise Square Enix has to date. Explain to me how FFXI doesn't exist and why it is bad for you.

I have this very large post I almost posted to answer you, but ive decided against it because it truely does not belong here and will open up many... many more subjects for these people to pick at that have no relevance to HNM's.

I did not slander a community (though I easily could), I slandered the content.

The game was not stagnant, its population barely moved over a period of 6yrs, right up until lvl cap increase was announced, I saw entire ls's dissolve over the announcement.

The level of endgame is meaningless, if the gear that comes from the content is BIS, its endgame, if the level cap is/was 90 (which is when I quit) and the content is 75, you still do it and it matters, and at lvl90 atleast all old endgame was still the only endgame outside of abyssea which every single mob excluding 3 mobs (yes 3 mobs in the entire expance of abyssea and all of its zones... 3) could not be duo'ed by a MNK + Whm.

Yes, FF11 is getting an expansion, which will likely take you personally a very long time to complete considering there are no remaining HNM shells left to burn through the easy content. The majority couldnt even handle abyssea ffs... I sold enough AF3 items and belts from Ovni to know.

[Andrien]

While I am not 100% up for slamming people who still play XI on forums. Jeronlmo is right, XI is dead and SE killed it doing the casual methods that many are advocating here. They removed the core element which kept the hardcores happy.

Those playing XI are playing a shell of game that tried to become casual like WoW and screwed over its current playerbase in the process. But he is right people over there think they are good because they have relics, to get in an endgame shell now they sorta expect you to have several... There is nothing hardcore left in XI, anyone who thinks there is are just kidding themselves. It is fine to like the game, just like it is fine to like WoW. But for many XI is worse then WoW now... at least WoW has content.

That is the problem with XI and why us hardcore cannot go back. They removed any and all long term goals to appease the casuals only... the hardcore were forced to flee the game. This is why myself, jeronlmo, and several other are advocating to at least keep some long term hardcore elements. To keep a chunk of the population from leaving. We need some things that you cannot just walk over to, things that require a commitment of time. People hate time sinks but it is the 1 element that keeps mmos alive. Without them you end up with WoW where the population booms after an expansion and 3 weeks later half the population is waiting on a patch for more content.

A mmo should be a game for everyone, not just a certain group.

If your idea of hardcore mean playing the waiting game, then that is your preference of choice. I agree that the game should cater to both groups, however everything else you said is purely opinion base.

Now back to another point. If someone is dedicated, and have the resources to get a relic or an empyrean weapon, then nothing should stop them. But, to upgrade them to maximum power is another story. That requires a lot of time, but the difference is that every time spent is progress.

[Xatsh]

If your idea of hardcore mean playing the waiting game, then that is your preference of choice. I agree that the game should cater to both groups, however everything else you said is purely opinion base.

Now back to another point. If someone is dedicated, and have the resources to get a relic or an empyrean weapon, then nothing should stop them. But, to upgrade them to maximum power is another story. That requires a lot of time, but the difference is that every time spent is progress.

No not really, numbers do not lie.

Look at sub count pre and post abysea. Look at relic count from vanadiel census pre abysea and look at the last one. ~50% of the sub count did not just 1 day all go hey I am going to quit and never come back.

There is no opinion in that post, everything is fact and that is the scary part. You can deny that abysea killed the game for hardcores, but there is more then enough posting that on every forum on the web that proves a lot who quit use that as the reason.

There is no such thing as content that will make everyone happy. Casual HNMS will still piss off the hardcores... that is something that everyone need to understand. So there for the only solution is to have content for everyone. It is a waste of time to try to find the magical content that makes 60hr a week players happy and 2hr a week players happy. No mmo has done it and I do not see any doing it in the near future.

[Andrien]

I have this very large post I almost posted to answer you, but ive decided against it because it truely does not belong here and will open up many... many more subjects for these people to pick at that have no relevance to HNM's.

I did not slander a community (though I easily could), I slandered the content.

The game was not stagnant, its population barely moved over a period of 6yrs, right up until lvl cap increase was announced, I saw entire ls's dissolve over the announcement.

The level of endgame is meaningless, if the gear that comes from the content is BIS, its endgame, if the level cap is/was 90 (which is when I quit) and the content is 75, you still do it and it matters, and at lvl90 atleast all old endgame was still the only endgame outside of abyssea which every single mob excluding 3 mobs (yes 3 mobs in the entire expance of abyssea and all of its zones... 3) could not be duo'ed by a MNK + Whm.

Yes, FF11 is getting an expansion, which will likely take you personally a very long time to complete considering there are no remaining HNM shells left to burn through the easy content. The majority couldnt even handle abyssea ffs... I sold enough AF3 items and belts from Ovni to know.

The game was not stagnant, its population barely moved over a period of 6yrs

That is stagnant.


I think your idea of endgame is missed placed. You see, I call sky/sea/abyssea/voidwatch as a whole, endgame. Not pop windows.

[Andrien]

No not really, numbers do not lie.

Look at sub count pre and post abysea. Look at relic count from vanadiel census pre abysea and look at the last one. ~50% of the sub count did not just 1 day all go hey I am going to quit and never come back.

There is no opinion in that post, everything is fact and that is the scary part. You can deny that abysea killed the game for hardcores, but there is more then enough posting that on every forum on the web that proves a lot who quit use that as the reason.

Fact, the game is not dead.. Secondly, this forum is only 3% of the entire FFXIV gaming community. Not sure about FFXI.
Fact, the game is still profitable.
Fact, the game is old.. I'm not surprised.

[Xatsh]

yes XI is still profitable, they are running it on a skeleton crew and all the original development cost are paid for.

But profitable with 150-200k subs is different the profitable with 350-400k subs. XI is not dead but it is dying, and it is in a decline faster then ever before. If the new expansion does not slow it down FFXI will probably be f2p or a hybrid model by the end of the year.

Stagnate is better then 99% of other mmos on the market where it is drastic declines every year. I am sure games like Aion, SWToR, Tera, wish they could of had XI's stagnation. Lol even WoW is losing what like 500-700k subs a year, think panda land might of slowed it some. But yea I am sure almost every mmo wishes they could hold their peak numbers for near a decade.

Anyways I am done on the XI topic, this thread is about hnms. And I wish we would talk about how we can implement them without screwing over casuals or making them forced to get the best gear. Instead of this pointless hardcore vs casual.