Highly Notorious Monsters

[Alhanelem]

The few people, are more then you think. HNMS gave you filler content made it so you are not spamming the same raid/instance over and over and over all day.

HNMs are not filler content. You couldn't do HNMs while you were waiting for something else to happen, because they would happen at set times of day. "filler content" implies it's something you can do while you're waiting to do something else. but when the "filler content" HNMs have better loot than the rest of the content, everything else is more like filler content for HNMs.

And no, the few people are not more than I think. The people who participated in HNMs were a small minority of total active players in FFXI. And then the portion of those people who actually liked the part about sitting at the camp doing nothing for hours is a small subset of those players.

All I'm against and people seem to keep glossing over this, is spawn windows. You don't need them. I don't care how many days the HNM takes to spawn- I only care if when the HNM is due to spawn, I have to go and sit there waiting for it to come for a random amount of time and then when my group doesn't win the claim, I just threw away 3-4 hours- what's worse is you couldn't just leave when you didn't win, because "they might wipe" (though rarely did they ever). So that's even more time wasted. I remember staying at a Tiamat for 7 hours waiting for another group to wipe (so including the time spent camping, we were there ALL DAY doing NOTHING most of the time). If you think that's reasonable, I want some of the drugs you're taking.

Timed pop? Sure. Fine! Spawn windows? hell the *bleep* to the no.

IF the game cannot provide the content required to keep them happy they will also quit playing and go else were.

and the game will be that much better off without them. Hopefully when they find no modern games that still have these "old school" mechanics, they'll realize how unhealthy it was.

[Jeronlmo]

HNMs are not filler content. You couldn't do HNMs while you were waiting for something else to happen, because they would happen at set times of day. "filler content" implies it's something you can do while you're waiting to do something else. but when the "filler content" HNMs have better loot than the rest of the content, everything else is more like filler content for HNMs.

And no, the few people are not more than I think. The people who participated in HNMs were a small minority of total active players in FFXI. And then the portion of those people who actually liked the part about sitting at the camp doing nothing for hours is a small subset of those players.

All I'm against and people seem to keep glossing over this, is spawn windows. You don't need them. I don't care how many days the HNM takes to spawn- I only care if when the HNM is due to spawn, I have to go and sit there waiting for it to come for a random amount of time and then when my group doesn't win the claim, I just threw away 3-4 hours- what's worse is you couldn't just leave when you didn't win, because "they might wipe" (though rarely did they ever). So that's even more time wasted. I remember staying at a Tiamat for 7 hours waiting for another group to wipe. If you think that's reasonable, I want some of the drugs you're taking.

You will never understand that your shit ls experiences does not define the entire gaming world. HNM's were easily filler content, you like a few others who I have a hard time believing actually played FF11 seem to forget that dungeons/raids had cooldowns, generally 3 days long, for these people that you feel you can judge for playing more than you run out of things to do considering doing Einherjar/dynamis/salvage and you can even throw in leveling did not take up even 20hrs a week which is honestly low play time.

Einherjar - 2 times a week = 1hr
Dynamis - (atleast my dynamis ls) 2 times a week = 3-4hrs (in total) to full clear any given zones
Salvage - maby 30min-1hr/day

Just in events your looking at maby 12hrs, and many people in HNM's actually didnt do salvage, ill even bump it to 17hrs for you to include lvling/normal NM time.

When no events were happening you wait for ToDs to come up, I even camped normal NM's inbetween events and HNM's to fill that time. The fact that you play video games to stop playing as soon as possible is like buying a coloring book thats already filled in so you dont have to color now. MMO's should not be beatable by anyone, no matter how much you play, even LS's like excellence/NiN/Apathy/Armada held a massive amount of members who played far more than the company I kept and they never truely got close to completely winning the game.

You want these changes to make the game more beatable for you, you personally, we want the game to slow us down, to hold us back, many of us have been with SE sense the FF series fkn started and truely do not want to move to different games if a decent game could even be found that isnt taken over by casuals, we want this game to work I promise you more than you do.

[Alhanelem]

^This is taken out of context, games can be taken over by casuals and I was obv not talking about this game

Games don't get 'taken over by casuals.' They only get made for them. And so what if any particular game gets "taken over by casuals?" What's wrong with casuals? Why do you hate them? They have every right to enjoy a game that you do.

Hnms were the filler content around that.

No. All other content was filler for HNMs, if you wanted to do HNMs. You couldn't do other stuff on your own terms because out of all the HNMs, there was always at least one due to pop at any given time, and if your LS leader wanted to do it, you had to go to it. I had plans to do many of the contents you listed ruined/abandoned by an HNM being about to pop. HNM is not filler content. If you did HNMs to a dedicated level, you had little time for other content. But what did you do most of the time you were doing HNM? Wait.

This game has the potential to be great, really great. Potentially the best mmo in the genre.

I agree. And it will still be great even if it doesn't have HNMs that use a spawn window system.

HNMs do not have a broad appeal. They are only appealing to to the hardest of the hardcore, and people that feel like they have no choice but to do it because it's where the best gear is. The percentage of players that ever fight an HNM in FFXI was always and will always be very low. Something like 70% of people who play WoW don't make it to level 10. You don't seem to realize what a small minority people who crave this content are.

I love fighting HNMs. I don't love waiting for them. I don't want spawn windows to own my time spent playing FFXIV. And I played it many hours a day. I'd call myself moderately hardcore. Just because I play the game a lot doesn't mean I like an NM's pop timer controlling when I can do the other 99% of the content in the game.

[Jeronlmo]

Games don't get 'taken over by casuals.' They only get made for them. And so what if any particular game gets "taken over by casuals?" What's wrong with casuals? Why do you hate them? They have every right to enjoy a game that you do.

Ok, if this is your stance, why do you hate hardcores, whats wrong with them, we have every right to enjoy the game like you do.

The fact that every game now is made for casuals kinda goes along with it not being made for hardcores, or like FF11 was made for both, but now its made 100% casual... hense taken over by casuals, its not hardcore friendly at all, I played WoW for 2 1/2 months I think and I was 6/8 heroic before I said fk it, just like post-abyssea FF11 after soloing my 3rd Empy weapon at lvl 85 I said fk it because it was rediculously easy.

[Xatsh]

HNMs are not filler content. You couldn't do HNMs while you were waiting for something else to happen, because they would happen at set times of day. "filler content" implies it's something you can do while you're waiting to do something else. but when the "filler content" HNMs have better loot than the rest of the content, everything else is more like filler content for HNMs.

And no, the few people are not more than I think. The people who participated in HNMs were a small minority of total active players in FFXI. And then the portion of those people who actually liked the part about sitting at the camp doing nothing for hours is a small subset of those players.

All I'm against and people seem to keep glossing over this, is spawn windows. You don't need them. I don't care how many days the HNM takes to spawn- I only care if when the HNM is due to spawn, I have to go and sit there waiting for it to come for a random amount of time and then when my group doesn't win the claim, I just threw away 3-4 hours- what's worse is you couldn't just leave when you didn't win, because "they might wipe" (though rarely did they ever). So that's even more time wasted. I remember staying at a Tiamat for 7 hours waiting for another group to wipe (so including the time spent camping, we were there ALL DAY doing NOTHING most of the time). If you think that's reasonable, I want some of the drugs you're taking.

Timed pop? Sure. Fine! Spawn windows? hell the *bleep* to the no.

and the game will be that much better off without them. Hopefully when they find no modern games that still have these "old school" mechanics, they'll realize how unhealthy it was.

FFXI was created with 5 types of mechanics

1) Instances with Cooldowns (honestly prefer these because spamming dungeons is horrible)

2) Force Spawn (Normally from crafted or drop items)

3) Campaign, besiged, and simliar events the original dynamic event in mmos.

4) Sky and Sea, which required large amount of people to do successful and it involved nms anyways

5) Hnms

1-2-3-4 almost every linkshell did it at an event time, or set time for thier linkshell (Guild) so everyone could be on at once.

Hnms were the filler content around that. If hnms were in JP time it was stuff to do at nights, if they were in Eu time it was during the day. If it fell in NA time... depening on the day they were skiped by alot. It gave people who were online all day something to do.

So yes they are filler content. Just like in XIV if there is a dungeon you cannot expect people to run it 12 noon - 12 midnight every days. People would get burn out and quit in a week.


And to comment on your last part. This mentality is what is wrong with casuals and why so many hardcores say casuals are destroying the genre. You really believe this better start looking for a new mmo cause XIV will go f2p within 1/2 a year with that mentality. Hardcores are the backbone to any mmo... the casuals are flaky and jump ship when something new and shiny is released.

This game has the potential to be great, really great. Potentially the best mmo in the genre. But I can guarantee you if this is a WoW/GW2 clone with a FF Skin. It is near 100% chance to fail. XIII will be better FF game, and WoW will be a better WoW, obviously.

[Blackpearlguy]

It was definitely filler content, as the post above me describes in great detail. I didn't even craft instead i'd camp smaller NMs for gil, why? because it was enjoyable. With that being said the argument over why you should or should not have hnms seems ridiculos when the best excuse we get is "I don't want it"

edit: spelfail

[Kryptic]

HNMs are not filler content. You couldn't do HNMs while you were waiting for something else to happen, because they would happen at set times of day. "filler content" implies it's something you can do while you're waiting to do something else. but when the "filler content" HNMs have better loot than the rest of the content, everything else is more like filler content for HNMs.

And no, the few people are not more than I think. The people who participated in HNMs were a small minority of total active players in FFXI. And then the portion of those people who actually liked the part about sitting at the camp doing nothing for hours is a small subset of those players.

All I'm against and people seem to keep glossing over this, is spawn windows. You don't need them. I don't care how many days the HNM takes to spawn- I only care if when the HNM is due to spawn, I have to go and sit there waiting for it to come for a random amount of time and then when my group doesn't win the claim, I just threw away 3-4 hours- what's worse is you couldn't just leave when you didn't win, because "they might wipe" (though rarely did they ever). So that's even more time wasted. I remember staying at a Tiamat for 7 hours waiting for another group to wipe (so including the time spent camping, we were there ALL DAY doing NOTHING most of the time). If you think that's reasonable, I want some of the drugs you're taking.

Timed pop? Sure. Fine! Spawn windows? hell the *bleep* to the no.

and the game will be that much better off without them. Hopefully when they find no modern games that still have these "old school" mechanics, they'll realize how unhealthy it was.

The linkshell I was in back in FFXI used HNMs as filler content. In between events if anyone managed to get a window for an HNM we would go while waiting for Sea or Salvage to start. A lot of people did this.