Highly Notorious Monsters

[Enma]

Hmm, I really can't understand why so many people is scared by repop time. Do you fear to really be forced to wait doing nothing?! It is not necessary the case.

I don't mean the waiting time makes a fight difficult, but it afflicts how much practice you can do over that, and how epic would be your victory. Spamming an HNM with 5 minutes repop means that, even if you don't have fingers to play, at the end you will win it.
If you can combat against it just once a day (If you pull it), it means you can't and you don't want commit any errors, because you are fighting a RARE mob.

My opinion is that there are two different concept behing HNMs through the people:

1. EX Final Fantasy XI players: Long Repop Time
2. New Final Fantasy XIV players: Epic Fights

These two points of view don't exclude each other and can cohabit too. We can call High Notorious Monsters the FFXI school of thought, and F.A.T.E. the new one.

Even if it appears F.A.T.E. could be not so much hardcore, it's a perfect system to improve which can get big attention by players. In A Realm Reborn both systems could be improved, but the secret is not to make one more worthwhile than the other.

[Blackpearlguy]

My opinion is that there are two different concept behing HNMs through the people:

1. EX Final Fantasy XI players: Long Repop Time
2. New Final Fantasy XIV players: Epic Fights

These two points of view don't exclude each other and can cohabit too. We can call High Notorious Monsters the FFXI school of thought, and F.A.T.E. the new one.

Even if it appears F.A.T.E. could be not so much hardcore, it's a perfect system to improve which can get big attention by players. In A Realm Reborn both systems could be improved, but the secret is not to make one more worthwhile than the other.

Definitely two different user groups I won't dispute that, but that's why it makes sense to cater to both. If you check GW2 the whole FATE system is an epic fail. FATE will be the introduction, instances will probably be the main course. With that being said FFXI had 500k subs at peak, a lot of which could be attracted back by features like the re-implementation of HNM. If you can't tell that by the 100 plus pages on this forum then you're blind.

[Eekiki]

Definitely two different user groups I won't dispute that, but that's why it makes sense to cater to both. If you check GW2 the whole FATE system is an epic fail. FATE will be the introduction, instances will probably be the main course. With that being said FFXI had 500k subs at peak, a lot of which could be attracted back by features like the re-implementation of HNM. If you can't tell that by the 100 plus pages on this forum then you're blind.

I count 26 pages in this thread, many of them refuting this claim.

In point of fact, the main force that sent many of those 500k subscribers away after FFXI's peak was World of Warcraft, a game that catered much more highly to the casual player, and a game that has yet to be bested in terms of financial success or player population ever since it knocked FFXI out of the #1 spot.

I can even remember hearing the stories as people left. "It's so much better than FFXI. I can log in for only a couple hours a day and actually make progress!" "Soo much nicer not having to sit around camping NMs for hours in order to get drops."

I could go on, but you get the gist.

And I hope you can see how your two schools of thought can't co-exist in the same game, because of two reasons.

1. If the gear you get from your "HNMs" is equal to gear you get from instanced raids, triggered pop NMs, or boss fights. NO ONE is going to bother sitting on their asses for hours doing nothing waiting for an HNM to pop. It isn't fun. It isn't. Stop pretending it is. Shut up.

2. If the long-lottery-repop HNM gear is superior to all others, then that's all anyone will care about endgame, so no one will bother with instanced raids, boss fights, triggered pops, PvP, or anything else. You're tossing dozens of potential forms of content in the garbage for one that's not fun in any way.

[Jeronlmo]

I count 26 pages in this thread, many of them refuting this claim.

In point of fact, the main force that sent many of those 500k subscribers away after FFXI's peak was World of Warcraft, a game that catered much more highly to the casual player, and a game that has yet to be bested in terms of financial success or player population ever since it knocked FFXI out of the #1 spot.

I can even remember hearing the stories as people left. "It's so much better than FFXI. I can log in for only a couple hours a day and actually make progress!" "Soo much nicer not having to sit around camping NMs for hours in order to get drops."

I could go on, but you get the gist.

You could go on but you would still be wrong. Until abyssea came FF11 only ever lost a very small portion of the population, the fact that more people like wow is because there are more gimps in the world just like there are more dumb people than smart people, WoW is actually designed to require less thought hense the giant arrows telling you where to go. The fact that FF11 "only" had 500k subs is because gaming until WoW was designed for people who actually like gaming, WoW is treated as a social network similar to facebook rather than a game.

[Eekiki]

You could go on but you would still be wrong. Until abyssea came FF11 only ever lost a very small portion of the population...nonsense redacted...The fact that FF11 "only" had 500k subs is because gaming until WoW was designed for people who actually like gaming, WoW is treated as a social network similar to facebook rather than a game.

I agree with what you say about WoW being more of a social network than a game. That's why I don't play WoW.

But there is no way you can tell me that FFXI didn't lose the bulk of its subscribers in 2006 when WoW was released. When Abyssea was released the general consensus of the greater MMORPG-playing community was, "People still play FFXI?"

[Blackpearlguy]

I count 26 pages in this thread, many of them refuting this claim.

In point of fact, the main force that sent many of those 500k subscribers away after FFXI's peak was World of Warcraft, a game that catered much more highly to the casual player, and a game that has yet to be bested in terms of financial success or player population ever since it knocked FFXI out of the #1 spot.

26 pages and not one example? Also didn't talk about WoW once in my post and clearly it was successful. FATE in GW2 is fun at first, but just go look how they keep changing everything and spamming past players with hooks to try to get them to come back. Like I previously said there should be options that's all.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game. I don't like PvP or Materia and a bunch of other things but it won't stop me from doing them if I want to progress further or help out friends. If someone can give me an example other than a) I don't want to camp and b) it's to much like FFXI i'd probably have a clearer understanding. Just seems like to many limitations are being placed for lame excuses.

[Jeronlmo]

And I hope you can see how your two schools of thought can't co-exist in the same game, because of two reasons.

1. If the gear you get from your "HNMs" is equal to gear you get from instanced raids, triggered pop NMs, or boss fights. NO ONE is going to bother sitting on their asses for hours doing nothing waiting for an HNM to pop. It isn't fun. It isn't. Stop pretending it is. Shut up.

2. If the long-lottery-repop HNM gear is superior to all others, then that's all anyone will care about endgame, so no one will bother with instanced raids, boss fights, triggered pops, PvP, or anything else. You're tossing dozens of potential forms of content in the garbage for one that's not fun in any way.

Except for the fact that they did co-exist in the same game for 10yrs+ which this is atleast the 4th time ive said this. The majority of gear if not all of the good gear from HNM's excluding D.ring were also in Einherjar, incase you never played FF11, Einherjar is an instanced event that took 30min in total and the drops including every abj. that HNM's did plus many HNM's did not have, and also... higher drop rates, yet people did HNM's, we did find it fun.

[Xatsh]

I count 26 pages in this thread, many of them refuting this claim.

In point of fact, the main force that sent many of those 500k subscribers away after FFXI's peak was World of Warcraft, a game that catered much more highly to the casual player, and a game that has yet to be bested in terms of financial success or player population ever since it knocked FFXI out of the #1 spot.\

This is a complete false statment. Yes some people left for WoW, was less then 10% of the subs though.

At WoWs release FFXI had about 570k subs based on VGChartz. 1 YR after WoW release the game was at about 530k subs and it stayed there for the next 6 yrs with losing ~10-15k subs a year. which is incredibly stable for an aging mmo. The first large loss was the release of abysea with XI.

WoW made almost no dent in XI's population. You want to look at other games it did where thier sub counts plumeted by over 50% within a year.

NOw I will make a point that wow stopped XI's growth. It was growing every year until WoW's launch.