Highly Notorious Monsters

[Alhanelem]

Putting in A Realm Reborn HNMs that don't require time, skills and lucky to be defeated is no-sense. The word High is put there for a reason, and to make HNMs enjoyable all the three characteristics have to be present.

No, just no.

High doesn't mean "must wait through hours of 30 minute spawn windows for the chance to fight". "High' only meant these were the strongest NMs- the most feared. Notorious implies dangerous, threatening, imposing, etc. "highly notorious" would mean "even more dangerous, threatening, imposing." Nowhere in the definition of either of those words is a wait time for anything described.

Having 30 minute spawn windows for several hours does NOT make HNMs more enjoyable. It makes them LESS enjoyable. A Highly Notorious Monster should by Highly Notorious because he's hard to beat- not just because you have to sit around doing nothing / busying yourself with trivialities for long periods of time just to have the privilege of facing the monster in battle.

If you like waiting, there are plenty of other things in the world that make you wait. Your video games shouldn't be one of them.

SE has never said in FF11 or FF14 that HNM's is a design flaw that they were trying to solve esp considering this thread had a dev say they were considering bringing them back this should be obvious.

Actually, that's not true, because they redesigned the 3 kings in an attempt to address the design flaws. I can't say the result was a huge improvement (mostly because it was too little too late), but that was the reasoning.

The only reason to WANT these wait times is to discourage anyone but no lifers from wanting to try the content, thereby making the rewards rare not becuase the content is challenging, but because only a few people have the time to waste. This is an unhealthy behavior and should not be encouraged.

[Jeronlmo]

No, just no.

High doesn't mean "must wait through hours of 30 minute spawn windows for the chance to fight". "High' only meant these were the strongest NMs- the most feared. Notorious implies dangerous, threatening, imposing, etc. "highly notorious" would mean "even more dangerous, threatening, imposing." Nowhere in the definition of either of those words is a wait time for anything described.

Having 30 minute spawn windows for several hours does NOT make HNMs more enjoyable. It makes them LESS enjoyable. A Highly Notorious Monster should by Highly Notorious because he's hard to beat- not just because you have to sit around doing nothing / busying yourself with trivialities for long periods of time just to have the privilege of facing the monster in battle.

Because obviously these new HNM's should be up 100% of the time, and why should we have to fight something for more than 5 seconds to get its drops, what a waste of my precious little butterfly time, hell, im the only person in the world with a job and a life and a family and your lucky im offering 5 seconds to kill these "notorious" monsters.

[Alhanelem]

Because obviously these new HNM's should be up 100% of the time, and why should we have to fight something for more than 5 seconds to get its drops, what a waste of my precious little butterfly time, hell, im the only person in the world with a job and a life and a family and your lucky im offering 5 seconds to kill these "notorious" monsters.

Yes, actually they should be up near 100% of the time- because they're hard to beat. I want deadly monsters that are almost sure to rape my face- not easy monsters that I have to camp all day to crush under my foot. I don't mind if the mob only pops say once or twice a day. I only mind that even if you know when it's "ready" to pop, you still have to devote up to 3or more hours of your game time to doing nothing before getting to fight. Playing the game = fun. Not playing the game = not fun.

You're just taking what I said and twisting it to absurdity, and not coming up with a compelling argument as to why 30 minute spawn windows make HNMs better. HNMs are fun in spite of the waiting, not because of it.

[Jeronlmo]

Yes, actually they should be up near 100% of the time- because they're hard to beat. I want deadly monsters that are almost sure to rape my face- not easy monsters that I have to camp all day to crush under my foot.

So you honestly believe HNM's should be unkillable... AV-type HNM's? Ok, lets do it.

[Alhanelem]

So you honestly believe HNM's should be unkillable... AV-type HNM's? Ok, lets do it.

There's a difference between really hard and designed-to-be-impossible. That being said, today AV and PW are tough but not impossible HNMs. Neither of them has a pop timer or spawn windows. They only appear after beating a long chain of other NMs- in this case, the encounter is made rare without relying on timers- it takes a certain amount of time to beat all the stuff that lets you fight the HNM.

Content like VNMs and Zeni NMs were based on this premise- the hardest mob can only be fought once every so often because you have to fight other stuff to get to it. This is the best way to make an encounter rare- by tying it to other content that must be cleared first.

PS i understood the sarcasm- that's not why i made the last post.

[Jeronlmo]

There's a difference between really hard and designed-to-be-impossible. That being said, today AV and PW are tough but not impossible HNMs. Neither of them has a pop timer or spawn windows. They only appear after beating a long chain of other NMs- in this case, the encounter is made rare without relying on timers- it takes a certain amount of time to beat all the stuff that lets you fight the HNM.

Content like VNMs and Zeni NMs were based on this premise- the hardest mob can only be fought once every so often because you have to fight other stuff to get to it. This is the best way to make an encounter rare- by tying it to other content that must be cleared first.

"Today" nobody cares about how easy AV/PW is, just like getting a relic, if you really tried you can get a new relic or 2 every month, FF11 is currently a joke/casual pit full of people who think they are good after SE made peoples characters god-like compared to the mobs they fight.

Me, and several others in fact have said we agree sky/sea and I guess even ZNM/VNM's did something right, but guess what? FF11 had all of them as an option with HNM's, not just what you like, hell, I remember people trying to explain this to you before the servers went down and you just cannot seem to understand that I/we do not care if you liked... lets say pvp, I do not personally enjoy pvp, do you see me starting a thread saying PvP should not be in the game?

[Jeronlmo]

Yes, actually they should be up near 100% of the time- because they're hard to beat. I want deadly monsters that are almost sure to rape my face- not easy monsters that I have to camp all day to crush under my foot. I don't mind if the mob only pops say once or twice a day. I only mind that even if you know when it's "ready" to pop, you still have to devote up to 3or more hours of your game time to doing nothing before getting to fight. Playing the game = fun. Not playing the game = not fun.

You're just taking what I said and twisting it to absurdity, and not coming up with a compelling argument as to why 30 minute spawn windows make HNMs better. HNMs are fun in spite of the waiting, not because of it.

You honestly complaining about people not comming up with a compelling argument to a post a page back that youve edited atleast 3 times that ive seen, your post started as the first sentence.

The idea of windows adds randomness to it for the next day spawn, 30min-3hrs later meaning you cannot just never camp and NM and automatically know the ToD (theres also keeping HNM's in a certain time zone issue), you could have also just gone to Einherjar. Secret - it lasted 30min's

World spawn bosses (what people here call HNMs) are fine. hours of 30 minute spawn windows are not. Have the HNM, ditch the spawn windows, and just have it pop randomly over time or at set intervals. That immediately solves my main grievance. pop windows are just completely unnecessary. If you know a ToD, you should just go there when the time comes, have it pop, either claim it or don't, and get your reward or don't. There's no good reason to potentially make people wait 1-3 more hours on top of that.

Oh your sneaky, just start new post or atleast edit when your post are still new.

Considering you sound like you have virtually no play time, if there are no windows, you will never have a ToD, people will only be in the area for the exact time it takes to kill any given HNM, windows are literally the only way the majority found the ToD's in FF11 once they were lost. If I remember correctly if you had a decent party setup is 5-6 people even Nidhogg only took 10min ish, so you would have 10min's every day to happen to be there, which would prob actually mean your going to have to stand there the entire day waiting for others to show up and hope you werent afk, a bathroom break and you could miss the kill.

Edit: Removed double posted text

[Lady]

Because obviously these new HNM's should be up 100% of the time, and why should we have to fight something for more than 5 seconds to get its drops, what a waste of my precious little butterfly time, hell, im the only person in the world with a job and a life and a family and your lucky im offering 5 seconds to kill these "notorious" monsters.

Had to read your quote 3 times before my sarcasm detector went off lol. I think the batteries are dying on it.

[Jeronlmo]

Had to read your quote 3 times before my sarcasm detector went off lol. I think the batteries are dying on it.

lol, well you got it, thats what counts.

[Alhanelem]

Me, and several others in fact have said we agree sky/sea and I guess even ZNM/VNM's did something right, but guess what? FF11 had all of them as an option with HNM's, not just what you like, hell, I remember people trying to explain this to you before the servers went down and you just cannot seem to understand that I/we do not care if you liked... lets say pvp, I do not personally enjoy pvp, do you see me starting a thread saying PvP should not be in the game?

No, because PvP isn't a fundamentally flawed game mechanic like spawn windows are.

Spawn windows are the only thing I'm fighting against. I want to go to the NM when I know it's going to show up, and either fight it or not. I don't want to sit and wait for 3 hours or more. Why would you have NMs with shitty spawn conditions "as an option?" That would be a pretty terrible option that pretty much nobody would end up actually taking. I dont' care if an HNM takes days to pop, as long as I don't also have to wait for hours after that spawn time is up. NMs and drops that are only rare because the number of people willing to put up with stupid design decisions is low is not a good way to make things.

Spawn. Windows. Are. Garbage. They add nothing to the experience. Why have them? 24, 48 hour pop windows are fine- It's ok If I only get to see the NM once every so often- but I shouldn't have to devote several additional hours of my time doing absolutely nothing in addition to the 1-3 days of it not being up. I love HNMs- just not spawn windows.

Ask anyone who's ever camped nidhogg in FFXI what their favorite part about it was. I don't think anyone will answer "oh, the fact that between spawn windows there's nothing to do except play isketch or stir up drama with the other LSes".

Oh your sneaky, just start new post or atleast edit when your post are still new.

So in this long winded post, the only argument this person has against me is I'm editing my posts. That's not an argument. The fact that I edit my posts means nothing relevant to the discussion- I edit my posts because I write down what's on my mind, and often I click "post" before I'm really done getting it all out. That's not a crime, nor does it detract from my argument. I did nothing sneaky. My post was still "new" when I edited it.

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edit for one more thought: To some degree I understand why long time players of ffxi want to have things like they had in the old days. That's fine and all, but this isn't a retro game. It's something new and modern- And mechanics that require large amounts of doing nothing or really long cooldowns between activities just don't have a place in modern games- We live in a faster moving world and it is unhealthy for us to be forced to play all day long when we have lives. Now I'm not talking about casual vs hardcore. I played both FFXI and FFXIV a lot in spite of having a job/life- quite a few hours every day- that's not "casual." Casual is an hour here, an hour there, probably not even playing every single day. I don't understand why the few people who can still sit their arse in front of a computer 16 hours a day should be more entitled to have content just for them than anyone else- and if they do have it, why it should give better rewards than anyone else can get. Playing to such an unhealthy level isn't something we should be rewarding.