Highly Notorious Monsters

[Alhanelem]

Thats the comparison too many people are blindly making here

The comparison is being made because it's a valid concern. I, and a lot of people, don't want them to return just as they were before. I want them to be better and more enjoyable to go after. I want it to be about the monster fight, not the player fight and drama.

[Exni]

Open world HNM's ARE and have ALWAYS been fair to all who want to participate.
You're on a server.
An HNM pops on that server.
You try to claim it.
You try to hold it.
You try to kill it.

It's the same for everyone.

Agreed.

I appreciate all the ideas and discussion on different ways to implement HNM, really I do. I'd like to see some of that in XIV. But also, I'd like to see them in the way they were presented in XI too because there was nothing actually wrong with the system. Whether or not you liked the system is up to you.. whether or not you like to compete with other LS's is up to you... whether or not you want to camp for hours is up to you... whether or not you want to attempt to claim is up to you... whether or not you want to get a ToD is up to you... whether or not your in a Linkshell that has a clue what they're doing, also up to you..

Just because you didn't like XI or XI's HNM system doesn't mean there was anything wrong with it. Plently of people loved it obviously (there was always alot of healthy competition on my server) and it never bothered me or my LS mates if we didn't claim Sandworm for 2 weeks straight.. or missed Niddhogg abuncha of times back to back.. Alot of you guys like to complain about XI's HNM and its pretty obvious you never had much experience doing it in the first place. Especially when you go straight to 'no open-world HNMs because of "unfair" claim wars'.. really? I played XI on 360.. and got a claim on EVERY HNM we attempted at some point (multiple times in most cases... although I only ever remember claiming KV and Tiamat once each..but that was likely because I'd usually fall asleep on those windows..). I never got why some people tried to use claim bots anyway.. unless you were just AFK or didn't know the ToD, it was faster to just spam claim at the actual ToD (starting a few seconds b4 it). But, if you actually went out to these 'claim wars' on a regular basis, you'd already know that..

The actual 'war' would begin after the intial group claims... They'd try to hold it with whatever few members they had camping, basically a low-man kite.. while the other groups would watch in suspense watching if their tank(s) go down. If they did, the other groups would start trying to spam claim getting ready for the other group to lose hate. Another group picks it up and then attempts to hold it, meanwhile most of the new groups LS has now shown up and they start buffing up and engage. But then oh shyt!! Mob got turned, spike flail, wipes half the group!!.. Now the other LS are trying to spam claim it when that LS loses hate!! Group 3 picks it up at 50%, already buffed they go in and wail it on down for the "W" and the LOOTS!!! NOW THATS HOW YOU MMO!! Good show for all 3 groups, yet group 3 wins it today. Man I miss having fun in open-world...

[DarthTaru]

Great post.
You and I are cut of the same cloth, Taru

A Tiamat not respawning until 72 hours after it's death doesn't "lead" to anything but the rarity and majesty of the HNM and its drop. That's it. Nobody was "camping" a window that wasn't up and nobody "camped" Tiamat on their main character unless they were really putting in a great effort to get Gaiters. Most of the camping was done by linkshell Alts. When Tia or any other HNM would pop the alarm would sound and the race would be on. It was one of the most fun aspects of XI.

In XIV, my LS and I sack claimed Goblin back before Yoshi P nerfed the existing NM's. Another linkshell was gathered in a huge alliance of 16 and my friend just jogged past them in a subligar and a conehat and took the claim. This really upset them (although they had no reason to feel cheated, they just got beat to the punch) and what followed was the funnest night i've had in this game to date. 4 friends and I (one LS) trying to kill Goblin while 16 from another LS tried to MPK us with mobs. We were unable to Siphon MP because we moved the NM (at that time this was a HUGE challenge to overcome) and all of us just had to be incredibly sharp to overcome everything. Sure, that was only goblin, but it was 5 man goblin, at a time when everyone used 16, while 16 people were trying to kill us and we had no MP.

Most fun in XIV to date... for all of us.

A lot of XI veterans like XIV and have faith in XIV and the direction of XIV but if open world HNMs are not introduced that faith will have been unfounded and we will not be here for the long haul, we SE's most loyal customers.

[Yelta_Sumasu]

Ooh yeah, I forgot about LS mates who would leave an alt character at pop sites and then let us know when stuff popped. If you were lucky your LS won the race to the HNM before everyone else.

[ThePatriarch]

The comparison is being made because it's a valid concern. I, and a lot of people, don't want them to return just as they were before. I want them to be better and more enjoyable to go after. I want it to be about the monster fight, not the player fight and drama.

I agree good sir. As much as I loved XI HNM system (and trust me, i loved it!) we most certainly need to tweak the system and try to implement it better in FFXIV.

I know everyone has comparisons on what kind of HNM's they would like to see, but I say this: Why not implement every possible kind?

People want short-timed respawn HNM's that take teamwork to kill? Well lets put some of those bad boys in the game!

Some XI afficianados want a couple 21-24h HNM to feed that need of competitive inter-LS battles to claim and win? Why not let them have it?

Some people want only instanced HNM's.. well lets give them some HNM's!

There are so many more examples!

FFXIV cannot afford to cater to one group indivicually. Content needs to be spread evenly and be available for everyone regardless of what interests they have. I am not satisfied with XIV right now, but I am a die hard FFXI fan, and I want so badly for this game to become a game which I can play as devotedly as I did XI.

I would ask all of you to not insult other's likes and dislikes, but rather, offer purely constructive criticisms on ways that system could be improved, and worked into FFXIV. We will get alot farther if everyone comes together, rather than spend time amid arguments.

[Cichy]

Agreed.

I appreciate all the ideas and discussion on different ways to implement HNM, really I do. I'd like to see some of that in XIV. But also, I'd like to see them in the way they were presented in XI too because there was nothing actually wrong with the system. Whether or not you liked the system is up to you.. whether or not you like to compete with other LS's is up to you... whether or not you want to camp for hours is up to you... whether or not you want to attempt to claim is up to you... whether or not you want to get a ToD is up to you... whether or not your in a Linkshell that has a clue what they're doing, also up to you..

Just because you didn't like XI or XI's HNM system doesn't mean there was anything wrong with it. Plently of people loved it obviously (there was always alot of healthy competition on my server) and it never bothered me or my LS mates if we didn't claim Sandworm for 2 weeks straight.. or missed Niddhogg abuncha of times back to back.. Alot of you guys like to complain about XI's HNM and its pretty obvious you never had much experience doing it in the first place. Especially when you go straight to 'no open-world HNMs because of "unfair" claim wars'.. really? I played XI on 360.. and got a claim on EVERY HNM we attempted at some point (multiple times in most cases... although I only ever remember claiming KV and Tiamat once each..but that was likely because I'd usually fall asleep on those windows..). I never got why some people tried to use claim bots anyway.. unless you were just AFK or didn't know the ToD, it was faster to just spam claim at the actual ToD (starting a few seconds b4 it). But, if you actually went out to these 'claim wars' on a regular basis, you'd already know that..

The actual 'war' would begin after the intial group claims... They'd try to hold it with whatever few members they had camping, basically a low-man kite.. while the other groups would watch in suspense watching if their tank(s) go down. If they did, the other groups would start trying to spam claim getting ready for the other group to lose hate. Another group picks it up and then attempts to hold it, meanwhile most of the new groups LS has now shown up and they start buffing up and engage. But then oh shyt!! Mob got turned, spike flail, wipes half the group!!.. Now the other LS are trying to spam claim it when that LS loses hate!! Group 3 picks it up at 50%, already buffed they go in and wail it on down for the "W" and the LOOTS!!! NOW THATS HOW YOU MMO!! Good show for all 3 groups, yet group 3 wins it today. Man I miss having fun in open-world...

At one point my linkshell was making 100 mil a month because we monopolized everything with bots. We had about 50 ppl and claimed 90% of HNMs. Whatever we dint sell we dropped to the ground so that the notion that you can get gear for free did not get around. There were dozens of linkshells like us.
Is this what you want? Because this is what XI was and what XIV will become.
Unlike you I am not delusional and I'm not lying to myself that what we did was majestic or noble. However, this is what that game mechanic created and promoted.
Also, 90% of fights in XI were tank and spank so novelty of them wore very quick.

[Rydin]

At one point my linkshell was making 100 mil a month because we monopolized everything with bots. We had about 50 ppl and claimed 90% of HNMs. Whatever we dint sell we dropped to the ground so that the notion that you can get gear for free did not get around.

I want to be like this ^^^ when I grow up

[Coglin]

The comparison is being made because it's a valid concern. I, and a lot of people, don't want them to return just as they were before. I want them to be better and more enjoyable to go after.

Thats my point. As far as I can tell, no one is asking for anything to return in the same capacity as FFXI. We are asking for the HNMs as they are in other MMOs that did them better then FFXI. Alot of other games did alot of the same things FFXI did, but alot better, some of them did things worse. If you read the entire thread, all anyone is asking for to have open world HNMs, and most have made references to how to improve them, or made references to other games that did it better, or specifically say to impliment HNMs but not as they did in FFXI.

You are simply trying to be difficult for the sake of it I guess. Because I pointed this stuff out as a reason to explain why I think "thats the comparison too many people are blindly making here".

[Exni]

At one point my linkshell was making 100 mil a month because we monopolized everything with bots. We had about 50 ppl and claimed 90% of HNMs. Whatever we dint sell we dropped to the ground so that the notion that you can get gear for free did not get around. There were dozens of linkshells like us.
Is this what you want? Because this is what XI was and what XIV will become.
Unlike you I am not delusional and I'm not lying to myself that what we did was majestic or noble. However, this is what that game mechanic created and promoted.
Also, 90% of fights in XI were tank and spank so novelty of them wore very quick.

Who said what YOU did was majestic or noble? These forums still are a riot at times I see.. People can't defend an arguement without making stuff up.. But fine, I'll continue

IF by chance there was a time where your LS was claiming almost everything I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I said... Regardless if YOUR LS failed and couldn't get a claim without a bot (which is beyond SAD...), that just a testament to the lack of competition on your server. EVEN IF theres abunch a groups out only with bots, you shouldn't get claim 90% of the time unless the other people simply arent even trying.. If your LS decides to let stuff drop to the ground (again.. fail.., we always had friends either on a waiting list outside the shell, or would sell it someone camping for whatever.. better than letting it drop to the floor...), that's just up to your LS... Basically, just because your LS botted on a server with hardly any competition (so.. so.. fail..), doesn't mean the rest of us didn't have fun doing it the way it was intended..

Edit: The only thing that I will agree did become a problem w/ regard to HNM were the Speed Hacks, which I didnt notice as a problem until the Sandworm days.. Yeah fix that..

Double Edit: Cichy, your name is kinda familiar, were you on Phoenix (volume?)

[Nexxus]

Interesting idea. This would definitely be a good compromise.

Let's use King Behemoth for example. Instead of obtaining his "drops", he dropped a set amount of tokens every kill. Somewhere, there would be an NPC to whom you could trade these tokens to in exchange for loot.

Lets say - Neptunal Abj.: Legs - 10 Tokens
Behemoth's Tounge - 5 Tokens
Behemoth's Hide - 1 Token
Defending Ring - 50 Tokens

I kinda like it. Most certainly encourages fair distribution.

Should the tokens be tradeable, or Rare-ex?

This is a really lovely good idea ! give up the linkshell point-system (DGKP) and Drama (lootwhore).Simply come kill NM, get what you desserve, be here often, and go buy what you have farm for. this is the best system i've heard from here.