Highly Notorious Monsters

[ThePatriarch]

I think the problem could be resolved through loot.
I guess in XI SE intended for a group to go camp Fafnir for a bit and than move on. However, it never happened because of the crappy drop rates.
If they added lets say 20 major HNMs to begin with, put a reasonable repop on them, and gave them a decent drop rate. Maybe it would work. A decent amount of NMs would spread out groups and if they got their stuff fairly fast they could move on. Fights should be pretty tough, but take no longer than 30-40 min. Rage timers included.
SE would have to avoid giving them gear like in XI though. The gear that was hands down best around for many years.
I strongly believe that best gear should be earned by hard work, not drop. More like a relic quest, but something players can chip away at everyday. Reward effort, not killing 1 mob in this case.

Another idea is quests where you would have to kill HNMs. It's could be a bit of a twist on abjurations.
You get a cursed piece of gear made with some rare mats (throw crafters/gatherers a bone) go to a NPC and he says go kill Fafnir, Behemoth, and Ada to lift the curse.
This way they dangle a carrot which keeps everyone around occupied.

I really like that second idea, pretty crafty. In a sense, they would give us plenty of content to go after, all the while keeping crafters/gatherers busy as well with more content. I gotta admit, this is a win/win. I will also add this to the OP (starting to get cramped, need to find the right spot to put it)

I can also level with you on the quality of items dropped from HNM's. While I do like the fact that some HNM's dropped some over-powered gear, I can deal with compromising. I do feel however, that a few select, incredibly difficult HNM's should drop some pretty great pieces, they should not drop ALL of the best gear available. As this was primarily the case with Zilart (sky gear being a slight exception, but Ebody/Abody/D.ring/Ridill/etc beat the majority of Sky Gear hands down)

For the most part I think it appropriate if SE can keep instanced content gear on par, and equal with that of non-instanced gear. I think this would motivate players to be active in both realms of the game.

But at the same time, as we have discussed make Open-World content more accessible. Don't water it down and make it easy by any means, but reduce the spawn timers drastically. Very the spawn areas to nullify botting. Design HNM/NM's that can't just be simply zerged down, etc.

[Cichy]

Here's the thing. If they would plan to increase level cap by lets say atleast 10 leves a year and add appropriate content it would not be that bad. They could add 1 great item per HNM and still keep other content relative if done properly.
XI was at 75 cap for so long, when they raised the cap everyone screamed bloody murder but if they do it once a year people will know what to expect. Also, it will help them to see what is the most popular type of content and develop content accordingly.

[Coglin]

Yes. Absolutely zero. Nobody bought the game because there were HNMs in it. In fact, nobody who bought the game likely knew what HNMs were.

Anyone who had played an MMO before did. Open world Named or Natorious Monsters was the standard in pretty much all MMOs.. Just because you were ignorant to that fact doesn't mean the rest of us were.

I can appreciate that you dislike the idea of HNMs. Thats great. Steer clear of them.

No one has actually offered one logical reason why they should not be implimented, because there isn't one. Its content that can add diversity. If your against diversity, then stick to the linear way you want to play, and do so. Trying to convince the rest of us, that wanting more then your linear outlook is a bad idea isn't really a logical approach

What appears to make less sense, is your making an uneducated attempt to tell us it that even if HNMs are precedented in a previous game, such as FFXI, that we shouldn't have them hear because players wouldn't have known what they were before hand? Seriously? Know that you think about it, that logic seems kind of, well.....stupid.

[Abhayaa]

Why are people still busting into this thread to say they're against copy pasting ffxi NMs when almost no one here is suggesting that. What we've suggested are compromises that cover most people's concerns about open world NMs. Please read up before ya speak up. :]

[ThePatriarch]

Why are people still busting into this thread to say they're against copy pasting ffxi NMs when almost no one here is suggesting that. What we've suggested are compromises that cover most people's concerns about open world NMs. Please read up before ya speak up. :]

Most people instantly come to the last page and begin reading into the thread, not many start at the OP, which is why we have so many arguments!

We are still welcome to any ideas/arguments, but it would save all of us unnecessary responses to invalid arguments if people would start at the beginning!

I am very interested in seeing what the Dev's think about these concepts, would be great to hear from them

[KyrsIsley]

Anyone who had played an MMO before did. Open world Named or Natorious Monsters was the standard in pretty much all MMOs.. Just because you were ignorant to that fact doesn't mean the rest of us were.

I can appreciate that you dislike the idea of HNMs. Thats great. Steer clear of them.

No one has actually offered one logical reason why they should not be implimented, because there isn't one. Its content that can add diversity. If your against diversity, then stick to the linear way you want to play, and do so. Trying to convince the rest of us, that wanting more then your linear outlook is a bad idea isn't really a logical approach

What appears to make less sense, is your making an uneducated attempt to tell us it that even if HNMs are precedented in a previous game, such as FFXI, that we shouldn't have them hear because players wouldn't have known what they were before hand? Seriously? Know that you think about it, that logic seems kind of, well.....stupid.

Anyone who had played an MMO before also know about instances. Open world named or NMs was the standard of quite a few MMOs, but so was instance oriented content. Just because you are ignorant enough selectively pick the information that benefits your argument doesn't mean the rest of us are as blind as you.

People who are against HNMs are generally against it due to the long respawn timer resulting in "claim wars". It is perfectly logical to not want HNMs of that nature, because the challenge lies within preventing/reacting to the opposing parties trying to screw you over not the actual encounter. Plenty of people have proposed interesting and plausible ideas/compromises in attempt to bring back the positive aspects of HNMs (diversities, thrills, challanges..etc) while trying to prevent the negative aspects (claim wars, griefing...etc) from coming back.

What appears to make even lesser sense is you making an argument based on selective information and try to stereotype people just like the person you are replying to did.

[Alhanelem]

If you're not going to read my post or take it seriously, then read KyrsIsely's post above. He can say it a lot better than I can.

I can appreciate that you dislike the idea of HNMs. Thats great. Steer clear of them.

No. They shouldn't exist unless the problems they carried with them from FFXI are fully addressed. Which, I fully support addressing those issues. What I don't want is the original pattern of HNMs lifted straight from FFXI with 3 hour spawn windows and multi-day repop times. What I do want are big, challenging bosses, just like just about anyone here. But Jumping through a million hoops and fighting with other groups of players over who gets the chance to fight the monsters is not fun in any way shape or form. It's only tolerable if you don't have to wait forever for another chance.

Anyone who had played an MMO before did. Open world Named or Natorious Monsters was the standard in pretty much all MMOs.. Just because you were ignorant to that fact doesn't mean the rest of us were.

1) NMs != HNMs. We already have NMs. We don't have HNMs.
2) I'm not ignorant to that fact.

What appears to make less sense, is your making an uneducated attempt to tell us it that even if HNMs are precedented in a previous game, such as FFXI, that we shouldn't have them hear because players wouldn't have known what they were before hand? Seriously? Know that you think about it, that logic seems kind of, well.....stupid.

Umm... that's not what I'm trying to tell you at all, and I don't even have any idea how you came to interpret my posts that way. So no.

I'm fine with the fact that the OP is suggesting ways to address the problems of the old system.

No one has actually offered one logical reason why they should not be implimented, because there isn't one.

There have been tons of perfectly logical reasons why the HNM system, as we know it from FFXI, should not be implemented. Implementing a newer, better system devoid of the idle time and stupid nonsense that came with the old system is a great idea and I fully support it.

You know you're playing a flawed system when you spend more time playing iSketch or some other game on the internet than you do actually... playing the game you're intending to play.
(iSketch was an old standby time-passer for HNM-goers. It's a pictionary-like game that happened to include a final fantasy-related word list (or maybe it was created by players, i don't know for sure). So, first HNM spawn window comes... wait for it, wait for it, no pop. Time to go AFK for half an hour. Let's play iSketch!. *30 min later* next pop window....... No pop. Back to iSketch!)

I really don't understand how anyone that wasn't part of a botting, cheating LS or an LS that did everything they could to make other groups wipe (which led to a special command to block assistance from ppl outside your party) could truly enjoy FFXI's HNM system. The fights with the monsters were epic- the fights amongst the players, and the waiting, and the cheating, not so much.


FFXI needs a big scary monster system. But it needs one that's intelligently designed and reasonably fair to all who want to participate. The OP and I clearly agree on that.

[DarthTaru]

My long term future with XIV is reliant on them adding open world HNMs.
Good thread.

[DarthTaru]

Open world HNM's ARE and have ALWAYS been fair to all who want to participate.
You're on a server.
An HNM pops on that server.
You try to claim it.
You try to hold it.
You try to kill it.

It's the same for everyone.

[DarthTaru]

Square Enix did the instant repop thing with the low tier NM's they released a year or so ago (Cactuar Jack, Old Six Arms, etc) and we see how completely lame and uneventful seeing those mobs are.

I don't think anyone wants to return to waiting in a pit for 3 hours every day but that issue is easily solvable without turning all of the HNMs into gimp-city. There's nothing wrong with Tiamat not spawning for 3~5 days after he is killed.
If she's up all the time and has a really good drop and you aren't ever able to claim him nothing is going to change.
The capable linkshells will sit there and constantly claim him until they have everything and the drop is worth pennies.
Nature of the beast and with instant repop times the mob will just become pathetic.

The best solution, IMO, is to make every mob in the game a potential place holder for a lot of the future HNMs like Tiamat and Cerb and Odin. Maybe he or she will pop in a desolate corner of the world and go unnoticed for a long time or maybe one day a level 2 will kill a rat outside Ul'dah and there Tiamat will appear.

However, I don't think it kills the game to have one or two Dragon's Aery type places.

What bothers me about the Negative Nancy's in this thread is that I feel like all of the people crying about HNM's and trying to dictate what HNM's should be are also the people who won't ever bother to try to kill them/camp them/etc.

The every kid gets a medal, "if I can't do it I don't want anyone else to be able to" mentality coming from the WoW influx into Final Fantasy is really starting to get irritating. Here's to hoping SE returns to its old ways of not giving a damn what the community thinks and makes the game they want to make.

Open world HNM's or bust.